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Janet Bell was my great grandmother married to John Balmer in the 15th November 1876.
On Janet's marriage certificate it shows that her father was John Bell, Labourer, deceased.
My issue is that I can't trace Janet any further back than her marriage as I can't find a Janet with father John in the right area.
1881 census states born in Kirkpatick
1891 census states born in Scotland
1901 census shows born in Carlisle, Cumberland
Looking for help in trying to trace her further back. Any help would be very much appreciated.
Thank you
Lynne
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Possible baptism?
Scotland Births & Baptisms 1564-1950
First name(s) Jane
Last name Bell
Gender Female
Birth year 1852
Birth place -
Baptism year 1852
Baptism date 14 Mar 1852
Baptism place HOLYWOOD, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
Father's first name(s) John
Father's last name Bell
Mother's first name(s) Catherine
Mother's last name Copeland
Place Holywood
County Dumfriesshire
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This may be her.
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Padock Hole, Holywood, Nithsdale, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Catherine Bell Head Married Female 21 1830 Ag Lab Troqueer, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Janet Bell Daughter - Female 1 1850
John Bell in 1851.
1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Thrucrofts, Lochrutton, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Joseph Craig Head Married Male 29 1822 Landed Proprietor And Farmer Of 130 Acres 4 Workers Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Janet Craig Wife Married Female 26 1825 - Irongray, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Janet Craig Daughter Unmarried Female 3 1848 - Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
William Craig Son Unmarried Male 1 1850 - Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Agnes Fraser Servant Unmarried Female 20 1831 House Servant Torthorwald, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Helen Halliday Servant Unmarried Female 18 1833 Dairy Servant Urr, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Robert Currie Servant Unmarried Male 20 1831 Farm Labourer Dunscore, Dumfriesshire, Scotland
>>John Bell Servant Married Male 23 1828 Farm Labourer Kirkgunzeon, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Locharthurs, New Abbey, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
John Bell Head Unmarried Male 36 1825 Farm Servant Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Catherine Bell Wife Married Female 30 1831 Wife Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Jannet Bell Daughter Unmarried Female 11 1850 Daur Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Jane Bell Daughter Unmarried Female 8 1853 Daur Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Margaret Bell Daughter Unmarried Female 6 1855 Daur Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Mary Bell Daughter Unmarried Female 4 1857 Daur Dumfriesshire, Scotland
William Bell Son Unmarried Male 3 1858 Son Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Agness Bell Daughter Unmarried Female 2 1859 Daur Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Parents in 1871.
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Carsewell, Irongray, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
John Bell Head Married Male 46 1825 Agricultural Labourer Kirkgunzeon, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
Catherine Bell Wife Married Female 41 1830 - Troqueer, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
William Bell Son - Male 11 1860 Agricultural Labourer Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Agnes Bell Daughter - Female 10 1861 - Irongray, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
John Bell Son - Male 9 1862 Scholar Dumfriesshire, Scotland
Helen Bell Daughter - Female 5 1866 - Kirkbean, Kirkcudbrightshire, Scotland
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Or maybe this is her??
Janet Bell
in the 1861 Scotland Census
Name: Janet Bell
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relationship: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Kirkpatrick Fleming, Dumfries
Registration Number: 827
Registration district: Graitney
Civil Parish: Graitney
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Torduff
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 8
Household schedule number: 13
Line: 9
Roll: CSSCT1861_143
Household Members:
Name Age
Maryann McKay 30 - England
John Bell 10 - nephew, Kirkpatrick Fleming
Janet Bell 8
I don't see births of a brother and sister as above - with any father's name, let alone John..
Ancestry suggests (for whatever that's worth) that this is her in 1871.
By that I mean - when you look at this 1871 record on Ancestry, it suggests she is Janet Balmer in later records:
Janet Bell
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: Janet Bell
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relationship: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Kirkpatrick Flem, Dumfriesshire
Registration Number: 817
Registration district: Cummertrees
Civil Parish: Cummertrees
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Murraythwaite House
Occupation: Kitchen Maid
ED: 6
Household schedule number: 12
Line: 13
Roll: CSSCT1871_182
Household Members:
Name Age
Isabella Hay Murray 51
Agnes Robson 48
Susan Thomson 28
Mary Buchanan 27
Janet Linton 18
Janet Bell 20
Margaret Temple 20
Agnes Gray 26
Jane Aitcheson 29
John Findlay 16
Mary Irving 41
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I agree that Ancestry links that Janet with Janet Balmer but I wonder if this is Janet born specifically in Kirkpatrick Fleming.
Janet
Last name Bell
Gender Female
Birth year 1852
Birth place Kirkpatrick-Fleming, Dumfries, Scotland
Baptism place KIRKPATRICK-FLEMING, DUMFRIES, SCOTLAND
Father's first name(s) James
Father's last name Bell
Mother's first name(s) Frances
Mother's last name Rae
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Janet in 1871? Born Kirkpatrick.
1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
High Burnthwaite, High Blackwell, Carlisle, Cumberland, England
Clement Skelton Sutton Head - Male 42 1829 - Cumberland, England
Isabella Sutton Wife - Female 32 1839 - Dornock, Dumfriesshire Scotland
Mary Jane Sutton Daughter - Female 4 1867 - Cumberland, England
Alice Sutton Daughter - Female 2 1869 - Cumberland, England
John Stordy Sutton Son - Male 0 1871 - Cumberland, England
Robert Sutton Brother - Male 33 1838 - Cumberland, England
Dixon Jefferson Servant - Male 24 1847 - Cumberland, England
James Bateman Servant - Male 23 1848 - Cumberland, England
George Cairns Servant - Male 34 1837 - Scotland
Thomas Bell Servant - Male 16 1855 - Cumberland, England
>>Janet Bell Servant - Female 22 1849 - Scotland
Ellen Darvis Servant - Female 28 1843 - Cumberland, England
Mary Wilson Servant - Female 9 1862 - Cumberland, England
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That Janet (in the 1852 birth posted by alviegal ) has a brother Robert, born 1854 Kirkpatrick Fleming,
This is her in 1861:
Janet Bell
in the 1861 Scotland Census
Name: Janet Bell
Age: 8
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relationship: Daughter
Father's name: James Bell
Mother's name: Fanny Bell
Gender: Female
Where born: Annan, Dumfriesshire
Registration Number: 812
Registration district: Annan
Civil Parish: Annan
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Lady Street
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 4
Household schedule number: 126
Line: 25
Roll: CSSCT1861_142
Household Members:
Name Age
James Bell 52
Fanny Bell 30
Janet Bell 8
Robert Bell 6
Richard Bell 4
Martenina Bell 2
James Bell 5
And this is the family in 1871:
Janet C Bell
in the 1871 Scotland Census
Name: Janet C Bell
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relationship: Daur (Daughter)
Father's name: James Bell
Gender: Female
Where born: Kirkpatrick Hy, Dumfriesshire
Registration Number: 812/1
Registration district: Annan Burgh
Civil Parish: Annan
County: Dumfriesshire
Address: Murray St
Occupation: Housekeeper
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 117
Line: 14
Roll: CSSCT1871_182
Household Members:
Name Age
James Bell 62
Janet C Bell 18
Robert Bell 16
James Bell 10
Mary Bell 7
Elisabeth Bell 4
James Bell
in the Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
Name: James Bell
Gender: Male
Birth Date: 14 Oct 1860
Birth Place: Annan,Dumfries,Scotland
Father: James Bell
Mother: Frances Rae
FHL Film Number: 6035516
Elizabeth Bell
in the Scotland, Select Births and Baptisms, 1564-1950
Name: Elizabeth Bell
Gender: Female
Birth Date: 2 Jun 1866
Birth Place: Annan,Dumfries,Scotland
Father: James Bell
Mother: Frances Rae
FHL Film Number: 6035516
Death of Frances:
BELL (also listed as Rae)
FRANCES
38
mms YOUNG
1869
812/ 74
Annan
Ancestry's suggestions aren't necessarily worth much, as we know.
This Janet is also flagged up by Ancestry as possibly being Janet Balmer.
There are a lot of Jane/Janet Bells in the censuses, born in Dumfriesshire around 1852.
Only two with father John (assuming the marriage cert has the correct info).
One is the one already posted, Holywood.
The other is this - Canonbie isn't far from Kirkpatrick:
BELL
JANE
JOHN BELL/JOAN MCVAIN FR732 (FR732)
F
13/03/1853
814/
30 321
Canonbie
However, it may be that there's no record of her baptism. As I said, I can't find a brother and sister to match the pair in 1861 with their aunt Marion Mckay.
ADDED:
John Bell & Joan McVain had other children, listed with mms McVane:
Peter 1844, Elizabeth 1850, Mary 1846
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I would think that if that is the correct Janet I've found in 1871 living in Carlisle (where she marries in 1876) then the one whose parents are James and Frances is a different person.
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Thank you all so much.
Having read your responses, I need to digest them all!
Some of the info above I have found also, but still unsure. Is there any way of knowing definitely (rhetorical question).?
The only other thing I do know is that one of her sons born to John Balmer has a middle name of Harrison, I do know that this is not connected to the Balmer side! Three other sons have a middle name of Bell - I did wonder whether there is a connection between Harrison and Janet Bell's family?
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Don't know if relevant -
there are two Bell/Harrison marriages in Dumfriesshire before Janet's birth, both about 5 or 6 miles from Kirkpatrick:
BELL
RICHARD
ELIZABETH HARRISON/FR329 (FR329)
20/05/1811
812/
10 341
Annan
BELL
WILLIAM
MARY HARRISON/FR60 (FR60)
16/12/1808
819/
10 55
Dornock
However, I don't see children of either marriage.
Can't see if there's a Harrison link in Janet's mother's side, as we don't know her name.
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Thank you ArgyllGran,
Trying to work my way through deaths of John's to see if anything fits.
Going to see if I can follow through census for the recent info you have just posted.
Regards
Lynne
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Marked as Answered