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William Ryan m.4/11/1841 to Bridget Ready. Mary b.11/11/1842, James b.5/12/1844, Patrick b.1/3/1847, William b.11/3/1849, Michael b.28/5/1850, Ellen b.6/3/1854...... Patrick I think is my gt-grandfather & William my gt-gt-grandfather. The family left Borrisoleigh, Tipperary, Ireland, sometime after the birth of Ellen. Patrick turned up in Bradford England to marry his 2nd wife Mary Davis in 1891. I'm looking to find his and his families wherabouts between 1854 & 1891
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could this be the fanily
Patrick Ryan
England and Wales Census, 1871
Patrick Ryan
Event Type:
Census
Event Date:
1871
Event Place:
Saint George the Martyr, Middlesex, England, United Kingdom
Event Place (Original):
St George The Martyr, London, Surrey, England
Sub-District:
Borough Road
Enumeration District:
3
Gender:
Male
Age:
24
Marital Status:
Unknown
Occupation:
Boot Maker
Birth Year (Estimated):
1847
Birthplace:
Ireland
Relationship to Head of Household:
Son
Relationship to Head of Household (Original):
Son
Affiliate Image Identifier:
GBC/1871/0602/0201
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Bridget Ryan Head Female 56 Ireland
Ann Ryan Daughter Female 27 Ireland
Patrick Ryan Son Male 24 Ireland
Ellen Ryan Daughter Female 18 Ireland
William Ryan Son Male 15 Southwark
Mary Cotter Visitor Female 50 Ireland
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No, not that family.
This is the same family in 1861:
William Ryan
in the 1861 England Census
Name: William Ryan
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: 1856
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Michal Ryan
Mother's Name: Bridget Ryan
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark, St Saviour
Civil Parish: Southwark St Saviour
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration District: St Saviour
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 91
Piece: 314
Folio: 44
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Michal Ryan 48 - Ireland
Bridget Ryan 38 - Ireland
Johonah Ryan 17 - Ireland
Patrick Ryan 14 - Ireland
Catharine Ryan 12 - Ireland
Ellen Ryan 9 - Ireland
William Ryan 5
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Patrick's marriage to Mary - late in 1891, so not necessarily local at time of census
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Marriages Dec 1891 (>99%)
Davis Mary Bradford, Y. 9b 416
Gaunt Albert Bradford, Y. 9b 416
Harrison Betty Bradford, Y. 9b 416
Ryan Patrick Bradford, Y. 9b 416
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If the family were still in Ireland 1854-1891, you won't find them on censuses.
William and Bridget's marriage, for our reference:
William Ryan
in the Ireland, Catholic Parish Registers, 1655-1915
Name: William Ryan
Gender: Male
Event Type: Marriage
Residence Place: Cullohill
Marriage Date: 4 Nov 1841
Marriage Place: Borrisoleigh, Ireland, Ireland
Diocese: Cashel and Emly
Spouse: Bridget Brady
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One child perhaps - in Bradford RD, but not seeing others
Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
RYAN, WILLIAM DAVIS
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in BRADFORD Volume 09B Page 47
Just looking around at the moment
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All Baptised - not born - on the dates you have posted e.g..
Ireland Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms
First name(s) Ellen
Last name Ryan
Birth year -
Baptism year 1854
Baptism date 06 Mar 1854
Residence Borris
Parish Borrisoleigh
Diocese Cashel and Emly
County Tipperary
Country Ireland
Father's first name(s) William
Father's last name Ryan
Mother's first name(s) Bridget
Mother's last name Ready
Repository
National Library of Ireland
National Library of Ireland register http://registers.nli.ie//registers/vtls000632669#page/1/mode/1up
Register
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As you say that Patrick married his second wife in 1891 - Who was Patrick's first wife and where did they marry
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Same applies to William & Bridget's other children - the dates are all baptisms, so we don't know exactly when they were born.
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RCatholics are usally baptised within a couple of weeks of birth
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What was Patrick's occupation on his 1891 marriage certificate
Where are he and his family on census after the marriage
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A tree on Ancestry (for whatever that's worth!) claims that this is Patrick & Mary's son William 1893:
Willie Ryan
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Willie Ryan
Age: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1894
Relation to Head: Adopted
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Hemsworth
Ecclesiastical parish: Hemsworth St Helen
Town: Hemsworth
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration District: Hemsworth
Sub-registration District: Hemsworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 15
Neighbors:
Piece: 4307
Folio: 157
Page Number: 10
Household Schedule Number: 64
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Gummerson 30
Mary Gummerson 29
Hilda Gummerson 3
Willie Ryan 7
Julia Stephens 44
Sydney Stephens 13
Rosa E Stephens 18
William Ryan
in the 1911 England Census
Name: William Ryan
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Adopted Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Hemsworth
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 2 Bush St Hemsworth
Marital status: Single
Occupation: Pony Driver
Registration District: Hemsworth
Registration District Number: 506
Sub-registration District: Hemsworth Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Piece: 27539
Household Members:
Name Age
Charles Gummerson 40
Mary Eliz Gummerson 40
Hilda Gummerson 13
Violet Gummerson 8
Una Mary Gummerson 3
Winnifred Gummerson 0
William Ryan 18
The tree says he was born 1st April 1893, and "Abandoned by his mother and placed in a Catholic orphanage."
For Patrick & Mary's marriage it says,
"Marriage
26 Dec 1891 • Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Patrick Ryan (44) is a widower and a tailor. Mary (23) is a spinster and a tailoress. The witness is Robert Hardie, also a tailor in Bradford. Bradford is 62 miles from Mary's residence in Kendal. Patrick's address is # 28 King Charles St."
It says that before he married Mary Davis, he had been married to an Ann, and had several children, including these:
RYAN, MARY ANN mmn ROSS
GRO Reference: 1857 D Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 281
RYAN, THOMAS mmn ROSSITER
GRO Reference: 1861 M Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 281
RYAN, WILLIAM mmn ROSS
GRO Reference: 1859 J Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 275
RYAN, MARGARET mmn ROCESTER
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in MANCHESTER Volume 08D Page 275
It says this is him in 1891 with daughters Maggie and Alice :
Patrick Ryan
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Patrick Ryan
Gender: Male
Age: 49
Relationship: Midoden [ Widower ]
Birth Year: 1842
Birth Place: Ireland
Civil Parish: Bradford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Residence Place: Bradford, Yorkshire, England
Registration District: Bradford
Sub registration district: Bradford East End
ED, Institution or Vessel: 49
Neighbors:
Piece: 3625
Folio: 163
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick Ryan 49
Maggie Ryan 15
Alice Berstman 14 - Manchester [ Ryan - or at least "Ditto" - on image]
Address: 20 King Charles Street. [ 28 King Charles Street at marriage to Mary Davis, accoriding to tree owner.]
HOWEVER, in spite of his being aged 44 at marrriage, and c42 in 1891 census, the tree says he was born in 1833, and therefore that this is his death, aged 60
Deaths Jun 1896 (>99%)
Ryan Patrick 60 Bradford, Y. 9b 50
This is apparently him in 1861 with first wife:
Patrick Ryan
in the 1861 England Census
Name: Patrick Ryan
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: 1833
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann Ryan
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Manchester
Sub-registration District: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 219
Piece: 2956
Folio: 79
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
Patrick Ryan 28 - tailor
Ann Ryan 27
William Ryan 2
Mary A Ryan 3
Thomas Ryan 3/12
The tree claims his father William (50, tailor, Ireland) is head of another household at the same address ( 3 Moor Street ) with wife and daughter - in which case that's not your Patrick unless William had married again:
William Ryan
in the 1861 England Census
Name: William Ryan
Age: 50
Estimated Birth Year: 1811
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margarit Ryan
Gender: Male
Where born: Ireland
Civil Parish: Manchester
Ecclesiastical parish: St George
Town: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration District: Manchester
Sub-registration District: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors:
Household Schedule Number: 219
Piece: 2956
Folio: 79
Page Number: 37
Household Members:
Name Age
William Ryan 50 - tailor
Margarit Ryan 56 - Ireland
Charlotte Ryan 12 - Ireland
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Other trees seem equally mixed up.
I haven't looked at them all , but at least three say Patrick's parents were William Ryan and Sophie Hinds.
Others don't name his mother.
As usual, people have just copied from each other, regardless of whether or not the information is correct.
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