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Mistycat
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13 Apr 2024 14:39 |
Jink, I am very appreciative of your “reading skill” and grateful for the assistance both ArgyllGran and yourself have kindly given me.
A summary of info I have thus far….
1841 Name Joseph Napper…… Age 20 Estimated Birth Year abt 1821 Gender Male Where born Staffordshire, England Civil parish Wolstanton Hundred North Pirehill County/Island Staffordshire Country England Street address:Occupation Registration district Wolstanton Sub-registration district Tunstall Neighbors View others on page
Charles Napper 70 Mary Napper 65 William Napper 40 George Napper 35 James Napper 20 Joseph Napper 20 Eliza Napper 12
His parents…..
Name Charles Napper Record Type Marriage Residence Place Wolstanton Marriage Date 6 Apr 1795 Marriage Place Wolstanton, St Margaret, Staffordshire, England Spouse Mary Napper Religion Anglican Page number 36
Joseph’s marriage (I have a copy of the marriage certificate)
Name Joseph Knapper Marriage Age 23 Record Type Marriage Birth Date abt 1824 Residence Place Halmer End Marriage Date 12 Jan 1847 Marriage Place Audley, St James the Great, Staffordshire, England Father Charles Knapper Spouse Sarah Plant Religion Anglican Page number 144
James living with the family 1851
Name James Knapper Age 31 Estimated Birth Year abt 1820 Relation Brother
Joseph Knapper 27 Head Sarah Knapper 5 Wife Caroline Knapper 1 Daughter Mary Ann Knapper 3 Daughter Levi Knapper 2 Son James Knapper 31 Brother
Last sighting of Joseph, at least that I can find
Name Joseph Knapper Age 58 Estimated Birth Year abt 1823 Relationship to Head Head Spouse Sarah Knapper Gender Male Where born Kidsgrove, Staffordshire, England Civil parish Audley County/Island Staffordshire Country England Street Address Halmer End Marital Status Married Occupation Coal Miner Registration district Newcastle Under Lyme
Household members Name Age Joseph Knapper 58 Sarah Knapper 57 William Knapper 20 Reuben Knapper 15 Joseph Knapper 13
1891;Sarah head…widow!!
Name Sarah Knapper Gender Female Age 66 Relationship Head Birth Year 1825 Child Reuben Knapper; Joseph Knapper Birth Place Goldenhill, Staffordshire, England Civil parish Audley Residence Place Audley, Audley, Staffordshire, England Registration district Newcastle Under Lyme Sub registration district Audley
Name Age Sarah Knapper 66 Reuben Knapper 25 Joseph Knapper 22
Last sighting of Sarah, again as far as I can see 1901
Name Sarah Knapper Age 76 Estimated Birth Year abt 1825 Relation to Head Mother Gender Female Birth Place Audley, Staffordshire, England Civil parish Audley Ecclesiastical parish Audley St James Town Miles Green County/Island Staffordshire Country England Registration district Newcastle under Lyme
Name Age Joseph Knapper 32 Fanny Knapper 25 Percy Knapper 5 Arthur W Knapper 4 Lillie Knapper 2 Sarah Knapper 76
And a number of GRO death images for various Joseph Kappers!!!
I shall now go and digest what info you’ve both given this morning…many thanks
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Jink20
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13 Apr 2024 12:31 |
Mistycat RE 12 Apr 2024 23:52 entry
Yes, my bad, you are correct. Should brush up on my reading skills perhaps
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Jink20
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13 Apr 2024 12:28 |
In order to try to narrow down the YOB issue with Joseph I looked at the following record
Staffordshire Parish Baptism records for Audley Result : the following Knapper information 1821-1825 (FMP)
***Apr 1 1821 Joseph son of James and Jane Abode Talke Trade Collier Not the Joseph married to Sarah, wrong father
***************************************************************************************** Other Knapper records found during above search, if it is of use to you Mistycat included
May 11 1823 John son of James " " "
Dec 28 1823 William son Illeg Sarah " Spinster **************************************************************************************** Marriage 1847 Joseph and Sarah I accept you may have this information already but I posted it so I could refer back to more easily
First name(s) Joseph Last name Knapper Age 23
Father's first name(s) Charles Father's last name Knapper
Spouse's first name(s) Sarah Spouse's last name Plant Spouse's age 21 Spouse's birth year 1826 Spouse's birth date 1826
Marriage year 1847 Marriage date 1847 Spouse's father's first name(s) William Spouse's father's last name Plant
Residence Audley, Staffordshire, England Marriage place Audley Record set England Marriages 1538-1973 County Staffordshire Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Country England Subcategory Parish Marriages Collections from England, Great Britain **************************************************************************************
Earliest Baptism period held on FMP for Kidsgrove, St Thomas 1839-1849
I am aware that this doesn't help identify Joseph's birth year, only to advise what was (not) available on FMP
*************************************************************************************** So, I posted what I found, as I toggled between the various sites and results which has now finally lead me to this post and for fear of stating the obvious and appearing to duplicate what is already known information
Burial for Joseph Dec 5th 1887 states on original entry abode was Halmer End
According to Staffordshire Banns Audley, St James the Great, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Joseph Last name Knapper Country England Banns year 1846 Archive reference D3483/1/15 Banns date 13 Dec 1846 Register type Banns Residence Halmer End, Audley ************************ Page 70 Spouse's first name(s) Sarah Spouse's last name Plant Record set Staffordshire Banns Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Spouse's residence Halmer End, Audley Subcategory Parish Marriages Place Audley, St James the Great Collections from England, Great Britain Denomination Anglican
Does this help at all with the missing link as far as Joseph's death record is concerned??
Comments and observations please.
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ArgyllGran
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13 Apr 2024 09:09 |
I think Jink found that burial on FMP. It isn't on Ancestry, nor mentioned on any Ancestry tree, as far as I can see.
From Family Search:
Joseph Knapper Vital • England, Staffordshire, Church Records, 1538-1944 Joseph Knapper, 5 Dec 1887; citing Burial, Audley, Staffordshire, England, United Kingdom, Staffordshire & Stoke on Trent Archive Service, Stafford; FHL microfilm 101,424,683. Name Joseph Knapper Age 60 Birth Date 1827 Death Date 1887 Father's Sex Male Mother's Name Knapper Mother's Sex Female Spouse's Name Knapper Event Type Burial Event Date 5 Dec 1887 Event Place Audley, Staffordshire, England, United Kingdom Affiliate Film Number GBPRS/STAFF/BUR3/050411
Unfortunately, there's no other identifying detail, such as a parent or spouse's name - at least, not on the transcription.
Note YOB 1827.
I wonder if it's a mistranscription of possibly bad handwriting? FS says the original document can be viewed on FMP.
There's no other Joseph Knapper with a matching or close YOB in Audley on the 1881 census.
1881 says Joseph's YOB was 1821 1871 census says 1824. 1861 census says 1823. 1851 census says 1824. His marriage record says 1824.
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Mistycat
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12 Apr 2024 23:52 |
Jink20
“I don't see this Joseph on any of the previous results or have I missed him”
KNAPPER, JOSEPH 64 GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME Volume 06B Page 49
This is him from the GRO image I posted at 20.59 11April…..he appears to be the closest match to my Joseph!!
Died 1st December 1887 Halmer End Audley, aged 64, coal miner, informant William son, present at death, Halmer End Audley…..
So that burial could be him….
Edit…can’t see the burial on Ancestry!!
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Jink20
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12 Apr 2024 20:38 |
Another FMP tree suggests
Burial 5 Dec 1887 Audley, St James The Great, Staffordshire, England
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Jink20
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12 Apr 2024 20:35 |
I saw a tree on FMP which suggested Joseph died in Oct 1887. I searched the GRO which came back with 2 results
KNAPPER, JOSEPH 66 GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in WOLSTANTON Volume 06B Page 77
This is the Joseph -Birth Date 1821 Death Date 18 Feb 1887 Spouse Ann Knapper
I don't see this Joseph on any of the previous results or have I missed him........
KNAPPER, JOSEPH 64 GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME Volume 06B Page 49
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Mistycat
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12 Apr 2024 18:26 |
Re /death/burial above…
Name Joseph Knapper Gender Male Birth Date 1821 Death Date 18 Feb 1887 Cemetery Kidsgrove Cemetery Burial or Cremation Place Kidsgrove, Newcastle-Under-Lyme Borough, Staffordshire, England Has Bio? N Spouse Ann Knapper
Now I’ve looked back on images purchased yesterday I had already ruled out this chap, died 18th February, residence…Long Row, Kidsgrove…occupation colliery bailiff….wife Ann
Thank you
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Mistycat
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12 Apr 2024 16:46 |
Jink20 thank you
This is very interesting
Staffordshire Burials Kidsgrove, St Thomas, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Joseph Last name Knapper County Staffordshire Country England Birth year 1821 Archive reference D5539/1/20 Age 66 Register type Burial Death year 1887 Page 59 Death date ? ? 1887 Record set Staffordshire Burials Burial year 1887 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Burial date 21 Feb 1887
Definitely the right area….
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Mistycat
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12 Apr 2024 16:35 |
ArgyllGran thank you…
A strong possibility from GRO
Sarah Knapper death, March 9th 1902, Black Lane, Audley, 68yrs, Bronchitis Widow of Joseph Knapper, coal miner. Informant Joseph Knapper son, address: something I can’t read on Black Lane, Audley.
On 1901 census when Sarah lived with her son the address was simply “Mile Green” for all the residences, as you say age could well be a mistake or possibly her son just didn’t know!! but I think to much “matches” for it not to be her? l shall look into Mile Green/Black Lane see if I can marry the two together…
Many thanks
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Jink20
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12 Apr 2024 12:02 |
1901 Census in which Sarah is living with son Joseph shows address as Miles Green, Audley, Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, England
GRO Death
KNAPPER, SARAH 68 GRO Reference: 1902 M Quarter in NEWCASTLE UNDER LYME Volume 06B Page 46
As per ArgyllGran entry 12 Apr 2024 00:53
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ArgyllGran
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12 Apr 2024 11:28 |
That 1902 Wolstanton death is the one Mistycat has already ruled out - widow of George..
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Jink20
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12 Apr 2024 11:18 |
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Sarah Last name Knapper County Staffordshire Volume 6B Sex Female Page 70 Birth year 1826 Country England Age 76 Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Death quarter 2 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Death year 1902 Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials District Wolstanton Collections from Great Britain, England
GRO result of above entry
KNAPPER, SARAH 76 GRO Reference: 1902 J Quarter in WOLSTANTON Volume 06B Page 70
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Jink20
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12 Apr 2024 11:00 |
Or
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Joseph Last name Knapper County Staffordshire Volume 6B Sex Male Page 94 Birth year 1820 Country England
Age 69 Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Death quarter 1 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Death year 1889 Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials District Wolstanton Collections from Great Britain, England
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Jink20
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12 Apr 2024 10:56 |
Or ( Estimated Birth Year abt 1823- Original post -11 Apr 2024 19:20)
Staffordshire Burials Audley, St James the Great, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Joseph Last name Knapper County Staffordshire Country England Birth year 1827 Archive reference D6149/1/10 Age 60 Register type - Death year 1887 Page 87 Burial year 1887 Record set Staffordshire Burials Burial date 05 Dec 1887 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Denomination Anglican Subcategory Parish Burials Place Audley, St James the Great Collections from England, Great Britain
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Jink20
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12 Apr 2024 10:50 |
Identical to above
England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Wolstanton, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Joseph County Staffordshire Last name Knapper Volume 6B Sex Male Page 77 Birth year 1821 Country England Age 66 Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Death quarter 1 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Death year 1887 Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials District Wolstanton Collections from Great Britain, England
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Jink20
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12 Apr 2024 10:47 |
Joseph??
Staffordshire Burials Kidsgrove, St Thomas, Staffordshire, England
First name(s) Joseph Last name Knapper County Staffordshire Country England Birth year 1821 Archive reference D5539/1/20 Age 66 Register type Burial Death year 1887 Page 59 Death date ? ? 1887 Record set Staffordshire Burials Burial year 1887 Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records Burial date 21 Feb 1887
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ArgyllGran
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12 Apr 2024 00:53 |
Not in Newcastle RD - but right age ???
EDIT: No, I think this is the one you ruled out.
Sarah Knapper in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915 Name Sarah Knapper Age 76 Estimated Birth Year abt 1826 Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun Death Registration Place Wolstanton, Staffordshire, United Kingdom Death Date Jun 1902 Inferred Death Place Staffordshire, United Kingdom Volume 6b Page 70
Or maybe this one if the informant got her age wrong:
Sarah Knapper in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915 Name Sarah Knapper Age 68 Estimated Birth Year abt 1834 Registration Quarter Jan-Feb-Mar Death Registration Place Newcastle under Lyme, Staffordshire, United Kingdom Death Date Mar 1902 Inferred Death Place Staffordshire, United Kingdom Volume 6b Page 46
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Mistycat
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11 Apr 2024 20:59 |
Hi ErikaH
I’ve tried Knapper/Napper/Knaper and Naper for both
Just been going through GRO (purchasing) any Joseph Knappers I think cold be relevant and I think I may have a very close possible…
Died 1st December 1887 aged 64, coal miner, informant William son, present at death, Halmer End, Audley…..at least it’s the nearest I can find?
Only Sarah now….
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ErikaH
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11 Apr 2024 20:20 |
There are a number of post-1881 deaths in Staffs for Joseph Knapper of approx ages…….have you eliminated all of them?
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