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Florence -
yes, I know your Alfred was born in Gibraltar - but you said Sophia's husband was born in Gibraltar.

Until you get the marriage cert you don't know if Sophia's husband is the same man or not.

Sorry - I'm being picky!

In 1903, Alfred Haggerty born c1871 was charged at Chatham Police Court with drunkenness - and with keeping a brothel

If he died in 1945, he couldn’t have married in 1951

;-) ;-)

Because on the census with his parents in 1881 it says that. His sister Alice Haggerty was also born in Gibralter 1873. and James b 1874

William b 1878 and Emily b 1879 were all born in uk.

His father i think must have been posted there for 5 years and then returned back to the UK.

Ah so you are wondering how do i know that the Alfred J P Haggerty that she married was from Gibralter? Well When i looked up to see if she re married, this was the only one that came up. Because she died as a Haggerty and was from Kent.

My aunt also years ago mention she married an Alfred Haggerty from abroad but obviously that was just family hearsay but it fits.

I just find it hard to believe there are 2 Alfred J haggerty/haggarty in Kent both born in Gibralter??? But hoping the marriage cert will solve the mystery as it will name his parents hopefully.

Florence -
At 13:35 you said that Sophia's husband was from Gibraltar.

How do you know that, please?

ok ty Jink20

I have now ordered the marriage cert and hopefully that will reveal more.

Ok so I found Sophia's death and downloaded a digital copy!
Died 2Jjan 1956 at Milton Regis Hospital Sittingbourne. Age 85
Says...widow of....... Left blank????
Cause of death,
1.coma.
Arterial degeneration and something I cant read.
Signed 6 Jan 1956

So widow of???? why was that left blank unless she died after Alfred and noone knew who her late husband was perhaps?

So yes I shall order the marriage cert and see what that reveals.

Ty for all your help

Address searches on FMP only cover Census year and 1939 Register

Ok so finally managed to find it on the GRO and downloaded a digital copy.
Its hard to read but this is what is says.

Died 19 Nov 1945 retired dockyard labourer.
Living at 21 cross Street, Chatham
Cause of death: Shock due to a fall accelerated my mycardial???? Accident.
Inquest. Signed 27 Nov.

Is it possible to see who was at that address in 1951?

I will have to order the marriage cert I think to get full details.

Death cert. from that date is almost certainly not going to show place of birth....

Informant might help you decide, but if in an institution / hospital that might be a member of staff.

Yes but how can that be Sophias husband whom she married in 1951?And there is no other death that's what i cant grasp.

WheI I go on the GRO and put in those details, it said it couldn't find it so how can i download the death cert. Not sure what I'm doing wrong.

If on the death cert it says he was born in Gibraltar then obviously this is the correct one but...the one that Sophia married was also from Gibraltar? Seems to much of a coincidence really.

I could try and order the full cert and see what on it.

Kent Burials
Chatham, Maidstone Road & Palmerston Road Cemetery, Kent, England

First name(s) Alfred John
Last name Haggerty
County Kent
Country England
Sex Male
Grave reference Section 21 Grave No. 200 (C)
Birth year 1870
Notes Entry No. 41166. 10' NP
Age at death 75
Record source Chatham, Kent. Maidstone Road and Palmerston Road Cemetery Burials 1869-2007
Burial year 1945
Record set Kent Burials
Burial date 24 Nov 1945
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Occupation Oap
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Death place Died at Chatham. Removed from St Mary's ********
Collections from England, Great Britain
Place Chatham, Maidstone Road & Palmerston Road Cemetery

Kent Family History Society

copyright Kent Family History Society

1939 Register
21 Cross Street, Chatham, Chatham M.B., Kent, England

First name(s) Last name(s) Birth date Sex Occupation Marital status Schedule Schedule sub number
Alfred T Haggertry 20 Jun 1870 Male General Labourer Retired Married 202 1
Hannah Haggertry 07 Feb 1869 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 202 2

The initial T could be a poor J

1921 Census Of England & Wales
12, Old Road, Chatham, Kent, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship to head Sex Birth year Age in years Birth place Occupation Employer
Alfred Haggerty Head Male 1870 51 -, Gibraltar Skill Labourer Chatham Dockyard
Ann Haggerty Wife Female 1869 52 Bramber, Sussex, England Home Duties -

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Dec 1945 (>99%)
Haggerty Alfred J 75 Chatham 2a ?

The original page is headed October, November and December 1945 and is typed. I don't expect a death 10 years later could have been added in by mistake.

The same death is shown on FMP with Volume 2A and Page 1409.

There is a burial (transcript only) for this person which shows his name as Alfred John Haggerty - buried 24 Nov. 1945 he died at Chatham and is buried in the Chatham, Maidstone and Palmerston Road Cemetery Section 21, Grave No. 200 (C)

A 1921 census entry shows Alfred and Ann HAggerty living in Chatham - he was born in GIBRALTAR

The 1951 marriage for our reference:

Marriages Sep 1951 (>99%)
HAGGARTY Alfred J P SKINNER Sittingbourne 5b 1979
SKINNER Sophia E HAGGARTY Sittingbourne 5b 1979

The death is on the GRO site:

HAGGERTY, ALFRED JOHN 75
GRO Reference: 1945 D Quarter in CHATHAM Volume 02A Page 1409

That would certainly match your info re Alfred - part from the 1951 marriage!
And apart from the missing middle name beginning with P.

Your Alfred was living in Chatham in 1911.

Do you know what the middle initials J P stand for?

Are you absolutely sure it's the same man?


Unfortunately, there's no photo of the 1945 gravestone:

Alfred John Haggerty
in the UK and Ireland, Find a Grave® Index, 1300s-Current
Name Alfred John Haggerty
Birth Date 1870
Death Date 24 Nov 1945
Cemetery Chatham Palmerston Road Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place Chatham, Medway Unitary Authority, Kent, England

I'm putting this request on this thread as the person in question is the brother of the original post William Haggerty.

So William had a brother called Alfred J P haggerty b 1870 Gibralter.
He married Ann E Mullett in 1914 Medway 2a 1635 p. They were living together in 1911 even though she was still married to someone else at that time.

In 1951 he married Sophia E Skinner who was a widow. They married in
1951 in Sittingbourne.

Sophia died in 1956 Sittingbourne Says b 1871( her birth cert says 1877)
P 980 V 5b

But I cannot for the life of me find when Alfred died. There is a death in Medway, but its 1945!
Chatham 1945 v 2a Q4 pg 1409 line 68

I tried searching with this info on the GRO but is couldn't find it?

So can anyone else please see if they can find his death and why doesn't this death listed in 1945 show on the GRO? I feel its a mistake as 1955 would be more likely.

Thanks

:-S :-S :-S oh my!!

My first flight was from Lydd To Le Touquet on Silver City. The front opened up so cars could drive on board.

Will Manston Airport be renamed London Calais Airport ;-)

When you don’t know an area all this area name changes complicate things. I recently read a question from an American cruise passenger asking if they could walk back to Dover port from Canterbury :-(
Yes, but it will take ages ;-)