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Yes I agree ErikaH, it does seem far fetched but the rest of the info does fit in with everything. His mother was born around then so maybe a mistake?

Unfortunately, I sent the form off to the library before all the info had been discovered and we now know who was living there, sods law that but nevermind!

I'm working on the kids of Jasper Read etc and have just discovered that one of his children had 7 kids(grandchildren) which included 2 sets of twins!
These are all my 3rd cousins!

So just when you think you have nearly finished a branch, a few more twigs start growing lol

Have you downloaded the death certificate for Jasper Read, Florence? Is there any information on it?

Perhaps the Jasper living at Mill Street with all the children is not YOUR Jasper. I'm hoping it is but there is such a huge discrepancy between years of birth.

I've been looking at William Edwin Mercer to see if there are any clues there but all I've found is his wife Nora Margaret lived in Mill St in 1951 and got a maintenance order against her husband who lived at Dalles Brett Crescent, Folkestone. The son mentioned was Albert Ernest born 1932 and they lived in Knightsfield Rd, Milton in 1956.

For what it's worth, there's no corresponding birth for a Jasper Read born in 1892 or April 1899.

The nearest is a Jasper Gordon Read was born near Thetford, Norfolk in October 1899, who is with his parents William Henry and Annie in 1901. I can't see the family after that - but I'm pretty sure that's not the man in Sittingbourne or Hollingbourne.

The age of the man who died in Sittingbourne must be wrong, whoever he is!

Alviegal, it wouldn't let me download the death so i had to order the certificate. I did that on 22 Jul. Will wait and see what it reveals.

ArgyllGran, I'm inclined to agree with you that for whatever reason, his age was recorded incorrectly.. There are very few Jaspers around Sittingbourne area.

Shall come back as soon as i get the cert.

Interesting that there is a long term link with this family to Folkestone.
Dallas Brett Crescent is largely social housing, so there must have been some residential link for them to qualify perhaps even though there were strong links with other areas.

Folkestone is not too far for me to travel, if you want me to investigate anything there.

Thanks Gwyn

Yes Sophia's mother was born in Ramsgate and there is a large family of Pitchers in that area. I started that research but have left it for now as concentrating on Jasper & the Reads etc.

There is another part of the family where a marriage took place in Folkestone and they also died there.

Many are in & around Shepepy, Sittingbourne, Chatham, Headcorn which are all fairly close.

But ty for your kind offer and if anything crops up, ill message you, very kind of you.

Well i have just received details of the ER search i requested:

At 37 mill Street, Sittingbourne

1937 James, Sarah Ann Cooper
1938 James, Sarah Ann Cooper & louis Hartridge

1946 Charles Hammond, Lillian G Heldt & Stanley heldt
1947 As above
1949 lillian G Heldt & stanley heldt

So no trace of The Read family!

Probably moved on during the years we couldn't search. never mind it only cost £10.50 and not £42.00 as was first estimated so not too bad afterall.

I finally received the death cert for Jasper Read
DOD 18 October 1965 Age 73!

Died in hospital, Milton Regis of various things:
Toxaemia. Seizures, and something else i cannot make out.

The informant was his daughter B Daynes(Betty) 84 Chalkwell rd, Sittingbourne.
Interestingly, it doesn't say he is a widower! but a retired dealer.

I guess it hasn't given us any new information really.

So I have today ordered the death cert of Ethel M Read(his wife?) as she died before him in 1959. So it may give some other info.

I also ordered the birth cert of one of his daughters Betty read b 1932 just to see who it names as her parents.

So I am no further into working out the problem with his age given. Although it is far fetched, I believe the mix up is because Jaspers mother May was born in 1892/93 and they couldn't read and write and probably were not that educated so his DOB was recorded incorrectly.

Certs are taking ages just now, they must be very busy. I also cant believe the price!! The prices have gone up quite some since its awhile since I last order any.


Florence in the hebrides

Thanks for keeping us informed Florence.

Do hope you will be able to finally prove this one way or another without having to spend too much more.

I know how frustrating it is to order a certificate only to find out it tells you nothing new and then you have the costs and the wait ordering yet another certificate :-( :-(

Fingers crossed for you xx

If the man was 73 in 1965, he must have been drawing a State Retirement pension. One cannot really think that such a benefit would have been paid without some proof of DoB - and employment history. He must have had a National Insurance number, which again would require DoB.

There isn’t any provision on English death certs ( at least not in that era) for marital status of the deceased, although, strangely, married women who died were recorded as ‘wife of’ etc under ‘Occupation’

ErikaH, yes I do agree with you on that.

He was a dealer, ie a "wheeler dealer" so I guess that was self employed. It is possible he didn't get a pension and lived off his own means maybe?

He probably didn't pay tax either ;-) in which case he wouldn't have had enough NI contributions to qualify for a pension maybe? I don't know what the system was back in the mid 1960's

Pure speculation really but somehow he has to be the Jasper in my family.
I will have to wait for the other 2 certs now and see if I can glean anything new to solve the puzzle.

Shall come back once i get the certs and let you know the findings.

In the 60’s there were a lot of early retirements in London - getting rid of the 55+’s. My father was mortified when he found a classmate of mine working at the labour exchange - he had to go to ensure he got the stamps paid for his pension.

‘Early’ retirement wouldn’t apply for someone aged 73 in 1965, would it?

However, Florence, if you remain convinced that this man’s is the one born more than twenty years later than his death suggests, it’s your family, and your choice.

As long as you are content with the outcome, that’s all that matters

I agree that he probably is "your" Jasper, Florence, in spite of wildly conflicting records of age.

But you may never be able to prove it.

You have records of "your" Jasper up to 1927.
The man in Sittingbourne first appears in records in 1931, when his eldest child with Edith was born.

"Your" Jasper was apparently poorly educated, and/or possibly not very intelligent, brought up by a mother who couldn't read, and moved around a lot.

The Sittingbourne man was a "dealer" at death, which is just a posh way of saying he sold stuff.
In 1939 he was a "rag picker" , a way an unskilled and uneducated man might scrape a living.
A rag picker could be made to sound better by calling him a dealer.

He was subsequently in court for not sending his children to school, so obviously didn't put much store by education.
Not an upstanding member of the community.

Declaring himself to be 20 years older than he was, in 1939, would mean that he could avoid being called up in WW2, as the upper limit was 40 - i.e. - up to the 41st birthday.
Just a thought!
(I don't know if the military authorities required production of a birth cert or not. The 1939 enumerators didn't, as far as I know.)
Perhaps a hard life had made him look older than he was.

The rules changed in 1941, which should have meant he (and other older men up to the age of 60) would have to do some sort of military or national service - but he managed to avoid that somehow.

I wasn’t suggesting that a 73 year old man would early retire, just pointing out that one needed te stamps or NI contributions in the 6O’s as per Florence’s query.

Just a thought, a rag picker could sell on the rags, thus becoming a dealer. Unless he was doing well at it he may not have been physically fit enough to serve.

ArgyllGran, yes all of what you say is correct.

His mother wasn't educated in any way and was a Hawker just like her mother. They would sell whatever they could to make money like Rag & bone men.

I expect they were very poor and did not eat a good diet. His mother died with "fatty deposits" in her brain caused by poor diet. So Jasper may have looked older due to his lifestyles and yes, he could have lied to avoid being called up or his health was poor and maybe got out of it that way.

He def wasn't a pillar of the community at all and from what i have found out, Jaspers children & grandchildren are not much better than he was in today's society!!Say no more as there are living relatives around. ;-)

may syrett married evans


Marriages Jun 1921 (>99%)
Evans Bert Syrett Hollingbourne 2a 1937

Syrett May M Evans Hollingbourne 2a 1937

malyon, ty for that but I have that info and her marriage in 1933.

I managed to decipher the other cause of death on the cert:

Gangrene of leg!

Well I have today received the birth cer of jasper daughter Betty Read

So Betty read b 6 Aug 1932
Born at 5 Flushing Street, Milton District
Father Jasper Read
Mother Ethel May Read formerly Castle
Fathers occupation Marine Stores Dealer
Signature of informant E M read, 6 Upper Stone Street Maidstone
Registered 23 Sep 1932.

What springs out at me is where Betty Read was born and the mothers address as both are different.

Flushing street was next to Mill Street which is where the Reads did live for a time but how is the mother living some way away in Maidstone :-S

So Ethel is still claiming to be married to Jasper Read on this birth certificate.

Any suggestions about the 2 different addresses? Unless 5 Flushing St was a hospital but I dot think so?

Still waiting on Ethel's death cert

Florence in the hebrides