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Just out of interest - and another "wormhole", I fear!
you mentioned that Mary and Thomas Williams had a daughter and two sons.

1911 census says they had had four children, of whom two had died.

I know that Jane and Sidney/Sydney were still alive in 1911, and that Clifford died in infancy.
Have you identified the fourth child?

One possibility, as Jane was registered in Pontypridd with mmn Walters.

WILLIAMS, DEBORAH mmn WALTERS
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 408


WILLIAMS, DEBORAH 0
GRO Reference: 1881 D Quarter in PONTYPRIDD Volume 11A Page 227

However, there was another Deborah Williams registered in Pontypridd in 1881 (mmn Gwilym), and I don't know which child died.


And there were Williams/Walters marriages, which isn't helpful.

Although the names are wrong (assuming Dinah and William were married) , I keep coming back to this record.
Posting just in case!

Dinah Powell
in the New York, U.S., Arriving Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name Dinah Powell
Gender Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality English
Age 25
Birth Date abt 1838
Place of Origin England
Departure Port Liverpool, England
Destination USA
Arrival Date 13 May 1863
Arrival Port New York, New York, USA
Ship Name Sunrise

She's travelling with a Walter Powell, 25, farmer, and an "infant" called William Powell.

I can't see any such couple in 1861, nor any marriage between 1861 and 1863.

On the other hand, the record says that Dinah is English.


ADDED:
That family are at the top of one page.
At the bottom of the previous page there are a Richard Powell, age unreadable
(24 ? 27?), labourer, and a William Powell, 60, labourer - but I can't tell if they're part of the same group or not.
Above Richard Powell there's a William Jenkins, 27, and above him a John Powell, 32 - but again, I have no idea if there's any connection with Dinah Powell.

Apologies brain fog regarding Powell,Bull, Walter.
Does this help??

Dianah Walters in 1856
England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales
***** First name(s) Dianah
***** Last name Walters
****** MarriageFinder™ Dianah Walters married one of these people
Michael Leary, John Powell
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Marriage quarter 2
Volume as transcribed 11A
Marriage year 1856
Page number 554
Registration month -
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
District Merthyr Tydfil
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
District number -
Collections from Great Britain, Wales
County Glamorganshire

Or

Glamorganshire Marriages And Banns
Llanfabon, Glamorganshire, Wales

***** First name(s) Diana
***** Last name Bule
***** Spouse's first name(s) William
***** Spouse's last name Walter
Spouse's residence Llanfabon
Event Banns
Event year 1861
Page 18
Banns year 1861
County Glamorganshire
Banns date 18 Aug 1861
Country Wales
Marriage year -
Record set Glamorganshire Marriages And Banns
Residence Llanfabon
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Marriage place Llanfabon
Subcategory Parish Marriages

Collections from Wales, Great Britain
Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

Entry reads:

Banns of Marriage between William Walter of this Parish Batchelor and Diana Bule of this Parish WIDOW

published 1st Sunday Aug 18th
2nd Sunday Aug 25th
3rd Sunday Sept 2nd?

The "e" at the end of Bule could be a smaller lazily written "L" on looking at the original.

Maybe??

England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales

******* First name(s) Diana
******* Last name Bull
******* Marriage year 1861
******* MarriageFinder™ Diana Bull married one of these people
******* William Walter, (Lewis Jones, Edmund Thomas)
Country Wales
Volume 11A
Marriage quarter 4
Volume as transcribed 11A
Page number 431
Registration month -
Record set England & Wales Marriages 1837-2005
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
District Merthyr Tydfil
Subcategory Civil Marriage & Divorce
District number -
Collections from Great Britain, Wales
County Glamorganshire

Oh well done Argyle Gran! Just purchased the digital image and mother is Dinah Walters late Bull formerly Powell!

So one chalked off - thank you :-)

Jude

????

WALTERS, WILLIAM mmn POWELL
GRO Reference: 1862 D Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 340

Thank you Gwyn.

William and Dinah must have travelled to USA before 1865 if John was born there in 1864 - Actual dob (hunt just came in) was 27/12/1864. The immigration year of 1865 came from the census - not sure how accurate it is. But I agree, they must have travelled earlier.

Could his older brother have been born there too? All of the censuses show birthplace as Wales. Can't find hide or hair of him in Wales.

As Mary was so young when her father died, she would perhaps have considered William Walter to be her father, but by the time her later children were born, she gave the correct information - yes that was my assumption. She obviously spent her early years with her mother (she was shown as 11 on the 1870 US census) so I am guessing she was known early on as Walters.

Mary's details should show by now. Are you sure she was alive? No I am not. But I don't know who the closed record could be if it isn't her. I can't actually find her after 1911 census but in 1921, Thomas was living alone in Cardiff and gave his status as married as he did in 1939.

Jude

Observations or ponderings..........

William and Dinah must have travelled to USA before 1865 if John was born there in 1864
Could his older brother have been born there too?
May be though William Edward's birth was just not registered.
Have you found a record of baptism for him in Wales.

As Mary was so young when her father died, she would perhaps have considered William Walter to be her father, but by the time her later children were born, she gave the correct information.

1939
Mary's details should show by now. Are you sure she was alive?

I'll have a look for them.......

Hello everybody! Long time no post. I hope you are all well!

I am trying to look into some very side branches of my Llewellyn family. And in the course of doing so are making lots of little wormholes to go down :-)

First focus is the family of Thomas Llewellyn Williams.

Thomas was born on 07 July1858 and was baptised on 12 September that year.

Thomas married Mary Bull on 30/11/1878. Her father, Silas, has an occupation of dead! Mary’s age is shown as 19 but I think she wasn’t 19 until 13 January the following year with her dob being 13/01/1860
Silas had married Mary’s mother Dinah Powell on 11/04/1859. He died 13/01/1861 (Mary’s first birthday).

So this is where many little wormholes started for me!
Mary’s first child is Jane Llewellyn Williams and the mother is shown as Mary Williams formerly Walters. On her two son’s birth certificates it is formerly Bull so I know they are one and the same.
From many family trees I have gathered that Dinah married again – allegedly in 1862 in Wales – to William Walters. There is no evidence of this AND I CAN’T FIND A MARRIAGE.

William and Dinah emigrated to the USA – first to Pennsylvania and latterly to New Jersey. This is borne out by various censuses. They had four sons; William Edward? born in Wales in 1862/3 – I CAN’T FIND A BIRTH,
John born 1864 in Pennsylvania and James born 1867 & Daniel born 1869 both in New Jersey.
In the 1870 census, there is also a daughter Mary Walters (transcribed Watter) whose birth corresponds to that of Mary Bull. And a year later she is back in Wales with Silas’ parents.

I have found Dinah in 1841 and 1851 Wales census and the next time I find her is in 1870 in the USA census. What I think is William Walters is on the 1851 Wales census on the same page as Dinah.

In fact, I cannot find Dinah born 1837 in Bedwelty, Mary born 1860 also in Bedwelty or William Walters allegedly born anything between 1829 and 1831 also in Bedwelty in any 1861 census. According to one of the USA censuses the date of their immigration was 1865.
I also cannot find Mary’s grandparents who she is with in 1871 John Bull born 1811 and Mary Bull born 1813 (both born in Paulton)

SO CAN ANYONE HELP FIND THEM in 1861 please?

One other thing I can't find is a death for Mary Williams. I have a 1939 register for Thomas Llewellyn Williams and there is one closed entry who I assume to be Mary. Thomas died just a month or so later but the informant is his son Sidney Thomas (who is the subject of another load of wormholes that I haven't gotten my head around yet (but that's for another time).

Thank you in advance for any help you might be able to give me!

Jude