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Arthur Brindley's mother re-married, as shown in census records...............this looks likely to be her death.......BEFORE Minnie re-married

Deaths Jun 1903 (>99%)
Wetton Emma 62 Stoke T. 6b 104

Leonard was NOT with grandparents in 1911 - he was with an Aunt and Uncle.

Still with them in 1921!

They were Minnie’s sister and her husband………………who didn’t marry until OND 1910

Minnie's father was widowed by 1891, and died in 1906!!

EDITED 06/01

1911 Census For England & Wales
13 Bath St Longton Stoke-On-Trent, Longton, Staffordshire, England
William Sargeant Head Married Male 27 1884 Dipper potter Heathcote Rd Longton Staffordshire
Eliza Sargeant Wife Married Female 36 1875 - Rall Mall Hanley Staffordshire
Leonard Brindley Nephew Single Male 10 1901 School St Marks St Shelton Staffordshire

1921 Census Of England & Wales
13, Bath Street, Longton, Staffordshire, England
William Sargeant Head Male 1880 41 Longton, Staffordshire, England Lodgerman Blairs British Anchor Pottery, Co Longton Staffs
Eliza Sargeant Wife Female 1869 52 Hanley, Staffordshire, England Home Duties -
Leonard Brindley Nephew Male 1901 20 Hanley, Staffordshire, England Colliers Loader, Underground Florence, Coal Iron Coy Co

That doesn't prove they met in Manchester.

Minnie left Stoke at some point between Arthur's death in Apr-June 1901 and late 1905, but you'll never know exactly when.

Samuel might have been in Stoke during that time , and they may have moved to Manchester together - but you'll never know that either.

She may have left Leonard in Stoke for a variety of reasons. Maybe Samuel (or Minnie herself) didn't want to have to bother with a young child at that time.

For all we know, maybe all the children were left with their grandparents to start with, and the older ones only joined Samuel and Minnie just before the 1911 census.
Lots of unrecorded things can happen in 10 years.

MINNIE and Sam must have met in Manchester as she left Leonard in Staffordshire with his grandmother and.brought Arthur, and Gladys with her they are the ones on the 1911 Census along side.my dad.born 1910.

We know that Elizabeth is not related to you, and unless there is a chance that she was not deceased when Samuel married Minnie, it doesn’t matter too much when she actually died.

No-one has been able to find any of the Rogers family in 1901, so we can’t even guess when - or where - she may have died.

MINNIE and Sam was my dad's parents he was the only child he was 14 when his dad died as I was 13 when he died .So getting info is difficult and as usual secrets and lies.My friends at Genes as usual find out more than I could and I appreciate all the work
Thank you all very much.

When they married, Samuel and Minnie gave addresses in Hardman Street, Manchester................he at 25, she at 24.

There was a suggestion in one of those earlier threads that the Rogers/Rodrigues family were 'Travellers' and certainly the Jewish connection was discussed.

In 1901 the Brindley family are living in Stoke on Trent

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census
8, St Mark Street, Hanley, Stoke upon Trent, Staffordshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Emma Wetton Head Widow Female 60 1841 - Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Arthur Brindley Son Married Male 30 1871 Potters presser Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Albert Brindley Son Single Male 28 1873 Carter Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Minnie Brindley Daughter-in-law Married Female 28 1873 Potters transferer Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Minnie Oldacre Grand daughter Single Female 17 1884 - Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Arthur Brindley Grand son Single Male 3 1898 - Hanley, Staffordshire, England
Gladys Brindley Grand daughter Single Female 1 1900 - Shelton, Staffordshire, England
Leonard Brindley Grand son Single Male 0 1901 - Shelton, Staffordshire, England


As ErikaH has posted -

Arthur Elijah Brindley had married Minnie Leadbetter in 1894 in Stoke RD

Arthur Elijah Brindley died aged 30 in Q2 1901 in Stoke on Trent RD

Did Samuel and Minnie meet in Stoke or Manchester or points between - Elizabeth Rogers could have died anywhere or just gone her separate way from Samuel.

Possible marriage for George ??? I can't see George in 1901 or 1911.

One of the witnesses is a Louisa Howard - though that may just be a coincidence.

George Rogers
in the London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1938
Name George Rogers (carman)
Gender Male
Marriage Age 26
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1878
Marriage Date 1 Feb 1904
Marriage Place Saint Matthew, Bethnal Green: Saint Matthew's Row, Tower Hamlets, England
Father Samuel Rogers (horse dealer)
Spouse Emma Carter
Register Type Parish Register


That couple had a daughter Minnie Louisa in 1906, by which time George was a dart board maker.

I don't see her in 1911 or 1921.

In 1932 Minnie Louisa married William Charles Cheshire. George is listed as a labourer.
In 1939 Minnie and William are in Shoreditch.



Minnie died in 1985, and William in 1988.

Probably already found, but I don't plan on scrolling through countless threads........easier to look for facts

BRINDLEY, GLADYS LEADBETER
GRO Reference: 1899 D Quarter in STOKE UPON TRENT Volume 06B Page 211

Marriages Mar 1894 (>99%)
Brindley Arthur Elijah Stoke T. 6b 268
Leadbetter Minnie Stoke T. 6b 268

Deaths Jun 1901 (>99%)
Brindley Arthur Elijah 30 Stoke T. 6b 13

Until and unless Samuel can be found in 1901, no way of knowing whether or not Elizabeth was alive then.

Isaac, aged 11, is also at the same Jewish school as Asher in 1891, in spite of also being listed with Samuel and Elizabeth.

Isaac Rogers
in the 1891 England Census
Name Isaac Rogers
Gender Male
Age 11
Relationship Boarder
Birth Year 1880
Birth Place Spitalfields, London, England
Civil parish Bethnal Green
Residence Place London, Bethnal Green, London, England
Registration district Bethnal Green
Sub registration district Bethnal Green East
ED, Institution or Vessel 13a
Neighbors
Piece 271
Folio 10
Household Members (Name)

Esther may have died:

ROGERS, ESTHER mmn HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1889 J Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 287

Deaths Dec 1892 (>99%)
Rogers Esther 3 Whitechapel 1c 224



"Hassa" is, I think, Asher:

ROGERS, ASHER mmn HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1882 M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 328

If so, he may have been listed twice in 1891:

Asher Rogers
in the 1891 England Census
Name Asher Rogers
Gender Male
Age 9
Relationship Boarder
Birth Year 1882
Birth Place Spitalfields, London, England
Civil parish Bethnal Green
Residence Place London, Bethnal Green, London, England
Registration district Bethnal Green
Sub registration district Bethnal Green East
ED, Institution or Vessel 13a
Neighbors
Piece 271
Folio 10
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
John Hart 48 Head
Maria J Hart 42 Wife
Ernest J Hart 17 Son
Owen Hart 7 Son
Kathleen Hart 4 Daughter
Martha Lord 29 School Staff (Staff)
John Tuman 20 School Staff (Staff)
Sarah Turner 24 Servant
Rose Allen 16 Servant
Jane Cooke 24 Servant



ROGERS, ISAAC mmn HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 320

ROGERS, GEORGE mmn HOWARD
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in WHITECHAPEL Volume 01C Page 334


I fear we're probably going over old ground here, with so many previous threads.

It's interesting that in spite of CofE marriages for Samuel, most of the children seem to have Jewish names.

Can't see any of them in 1901.

Wonder when and why he moved to Manchester?

Seems he lied about his age………….

What happened to his children with Elizabeth?

In 1921, he gave his age as 62 yrs 4mths……..

Yes, unless he was lying.

Samuel Rogers
in the Manchester, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1930
Name Samuel Rogers - widower, general dealer
Gender Male
Marriage Age 42
Event Type Marriage
Birth Year abt 1863
Marriage Date 30 Dec 1905
Marriage Place Manchester, St John, Lancashire, England
Parish as it Appears Manchester
Father Isaac Rogers
Spouse Minnie Brindley
Reference Number GB127.M403/6/3/59

Was Samuel definitely a widower when he married Minnie?

First marriage....

Name Elizabeth Howard
Gender Female
Marriage Age 23
Record Type Marriage
Birth Date abt 1852
Marriage Date 3 Feb 1875
Marriage Place Saint Bartholomew, Bethnal Green: Coventry Road, Tower Hamlets, England
Father Thomas Howard
Spouse Samuel Rodgers..........age 21

Look at freebmd for the area in which she was living in 1891, and isolate any records with approximately matching age.

Yes, we know Elizabeth is the one you're interested in, but it's often helpful for us to know about the surrounding history, as we can sometimes approach "sideways", via somebody else.

How do you know it was by 1901?

Have you found Samuel in 1901? Or any of the children listed in 1891?

I haven't studied all your threads in detail, but I don't think we've found anything for Samuel between 1891 and 1905, so Elizabeth could still have been alive up to 1905.
Or do you know differently?

Thank you everyone Minnie was.Sams.second wife my gran and granddad Elizabeth is the one I wanted.to know when she died but I cant find that.I know it's between 1891 and 1901 .

So many threads - and the site guidelines say “one per topic’

Please DO NOT start any more on this couple