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Hi Diane, Many thanks for doing that, much appreciated. Think this is one line of mine that i will have to let go, although the Clara I found is screaming at me as the right Clara I cannot prove it so cannot really put her in my tree. Regards, Matt

Hi Matthew Tried checking to see if any of Joseph and Mary Grove's sibling married any of Charles Parkins siblings or family in the hopes of establishing a connection but unfortunately drew a blank

Hi Val, Many thanks for this information. If only there were some vague link between the two families that i could look for it would all make sense but there is nothing. I understand that Clara's circumstances would meant she had to give up Herbert but to a lot older couple with their own children that dont appear to have any connections at all to her? Its very odd. Regards, Matt

Marriages Sep 1861 Grove Joseph Kings N 6c 584 Madison Mary Ann Kings N 6c 584 Marriage Sep 1855 Parkin Charles Rotherham 9c 546 Rawlin Mary Rotherham 9c 546 1861 census Charles Parkin head Mary wife Thomas 5 son Lucy 3 dau Clara 1 dau 1871 Census Charles Parkin widowed Children plus Bertha 11 months old Births Sep 1869 Parkin Bertha Rotherham 9c 521 Deaths Dec 1870 Parkin Mary 38 Sheffield 9c 200 Still can't find the connection between the Groves and Clara Parkin. Val

Hi Sue, Many thanks for that. I first looked at this line about a year back and came across this and then put it all to one side. Every so often i have another look and would dearly like to find out more about Clara and her family. Herbert clearly took the Grove family as his own from 1881 and took their name also but he did give all his children the middle name of Parkin. Regards, Matt

found a john e parkin born wentworth as an apprentice coal miner in 1881 in thorpe hesley, first time i have seen thorpe hesley mentioned again. really confused now, i dont think i will ever get proof that this is the right person. Regards, Matt

Hi Diane, I hadnt looked for Charles on the 1881, will do that now. It would certainly explain the situation, i wonder where all the children have gone? will have a look for those also to see if anything comes of them. Regards, Matt

May be kept Herbert for four years and then had to get work as a servant and couldn't take him with her as she probably wouldn't want it known she was an unmarried mother??? Charles Parkin was boarding in 1881 and had none of the chidren with him don't know if this explains why Clara is a servant and the Herbert situation

I agree with Susan. Relying on just 'Wentworth' when there are so many other Clara's in surrounding districts might be restricting your search. A lot of young ladies were 'sent away' to have their babies, so she may not automatically be the right one. Deb:)

Hi Both, I do have both Herbert's marriage cert and birth cert. The marriage took place in Masborough St John to Lucy Ellis and he named Joseph Grove as his father but Joseph Grove is the head of the house he was with in 1881 and 1891. Joseph had his own wife and children and appears to be very unlikely to be the real father but not sure. Herbert becomes Herbert Parkin Grove by his marriage and died with this name. Herbert's birth cert shows Clara Parkin has mother but no father named. He was born in Thorpe Hesley/Wentworth. Herbert's baptism took place in 1880 at St John, Masborough and named Clara has mother again but no father. I cannot find the link at all to how she kept him for 4 years and then in 1881, he is with the Grove family from then on. Regards, Matt

Could also get birth certificate for Herbert that will give his mother's name and would confirm whether the Clara you mentioned is in fact his mother. For reference the birth record is probably as follows Herbert Parkin Year of Registration: 1876 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec DISTRICT: Rotherham County: Derbyshire, Yorkshire - West Riding Volume: 9c Page: 676

Hello all. I know I have probably asked this before and i left this lady alone but here I am again looking at what I have got and would dearly like peoples opinions again to whether you would claim this lady. I have Herbert Parkin born in Wentworth (Thorpe Hesley) nr Rotherham in 1876, the illegitimate child of Clara Parkin. With no futher information, The only Clara I can find on census that would fit my Herberts mother is Clara Parkin on 1881 census as a servant in Dalton in Rotherham born 1860c in Wentworth. Son Herbert is with a Grove family who he stays with thereafter. This Clara appears in the 71 and 61 census with father Charles as still born Wentworth and living in Wentworth. Its screaming as she is mine but would you claim her with out any other proof? Any opinions would be greatly received. Regards, Matt