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i think i am living up to my name today, i shouldn't do things when i'm tired. if i was blonde like my daughter i could blame it on a blonde moment. i would again like to thank everyone for their help it is much appreciated. dawn

Dawn, I think you did what we've all done at one time or another. Well I know I did. You found Ralph on a census with a wife Hannah and went back and found the marriage of Ralph & Hannah Harker, right place, right time and said 'Bingo, that's it!' Been there, done that! Margaret

Wonder if this is Isabella in the 1851 census. She is a pauper in Workhouse along with a 5 year old Elizabeth Leadbitter and lots of others:- Isabella Leadbitter abt 1835 Northd, Gosforth Ponteland Northumberland Kath. x

Now that's interesting Andrea! It can't be that first marriage to Hannah Harker. Baby Ralph was 3 months old on census day, April 7. I take that back, anything's possible in this game. It's just more likely that he married Isabella in 1858.

That's alright Dawn. Can we forget about Hannah Harker now then? Kath. x

thank you kath, i think that is the birth. i have just been in contact with another member whose husbands line comes through ralph and she graciously gave access to her tree, it shows his birth place as choppington. however i may have gotten confused with ralph born in 1831 marriages-- he was married to hannah joyce but his first wife and ralph-- 1861,s mother is called isabella. sorry for the confusion. dawn

You're right Margaret - I have so many babies dying before their first birthday in my ancestors familes. We even found that my husband had a baby brother who was born 1 year before hubby, who only lived 12 hours and had the same name as my hubby (which made him feel slightly weird). Hubby probably wouldn't have been born if this little one had lived. He was 2 months premature so in this day and age he would probably have lived. So sad. Kath. x

I was just wondering if Ralph could have been married 3 times???? You would need the marriage certificate to Hannah Harker to see if he was a bachelor or widower. Did you get the name Hannah Harker from a birth certificate? If so, whose? Kath. x

Also this one >>>>Ralph Chapman 1858 Jan-Feb-Mar Tynemouth Northumberland Alice Farrow 1858 Jan-Feb-Mar Tynemouth Northumberland >>>>Isabella Leadbitter 1858 Jan-Feb-Mar Tynemouth Northumberland Matthew Smith 1858 Jan-Feb-Mar (Illegible)

Well done, Kath! I would say you're 100% correct. So many sad stories in this hobby! Margaret Update, I was talking about previous message re: baby Ralph. Now it looks like previous wife wasn't Hannah Harker? She was Isabella.

There is this marriage >>>>Ralph Chapman 1861 Apr-May-Jun Chester Le Street Durham Ann Charlton 1861 Apr-May-Jun Chester Le Street Durham >>>>Hannah Harker 1861 Apr-May-Jun Chester Le Street Durham John Ritchie 1861 Apr-May-Jun Chester Le Street I doubt if this is the same Ralph Chapman.

Dawn says that Ralph's wife was Hannah Harker - not Isabella. Kath. x

There is this death Isabella Chapman Year of Registration: 1861 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Morpeth County: Durham, Northumberland Volume: 10b Page: 208 Only Chapman death 1860/61 in Morpeth district - should be Ralph's wife

Don't know if this is the correct birth registration, but if it is then the baby should be around somewhere:- Name: Ralph Chapman Year of Registration: 1861 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Morpeth County: Durham, Northumberland Volume: 10b Page: 253 Kath. x

Could this possibly be Ralph, the baby, with another family as a nurse child (foster child), since his mother had died? Name: Ralph Chapman Age: 3 Mo Estimated birth year: abt 1861 Relation: Nurse Child (Nurse) Gender: Male Where born: Choppington, Northumberland, England Civil parish: Longbenton County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Street address: Gosforth Row Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Registration district: Tynemouth Sub-registration district: Longbenton ED, institution, or vessel: 7 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 149 Household Members: Name Age Ralph Chapman 3 Mo Elizabeth Hall 11 John Hall 49 Mary Hall 50 Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 3845; Folio: 54; Page: 25 This baby born Choppington, which would make the Morpeth birth likely to be right. Kath. x

Dawn, You probably need young Ralph's birth certificate to see exactly when he was born. Perhaps a grieving Ralph snr. just forgot to add the baby to the census. Kath. x

Am I missing something? Where's baby Ralph in 1861? The census is 7 April, Ralph is already widowed but baby Ralph isn't there yet he's 10 in 71. She couldn't have died in childbirth before he was born! Margaret

sorry i dont have any other info on hannah but many many thanks for your help. dawn

Do you want details of Hannah Harker before her marriage? Do you know her father's name? There are a few Hannah Harker's in the Durham area, so without her father's name from the marriage certificate, or an idea of birth year it's difficult to decide which one is her. Kath. x

thanks ever so much kath and margaret. didnt think of two marriages and just to confuse me a bit more both wives with the same name. as ralph is widowed by 1861 i assume hannah (harker) died in childbirth as son ralph born in 1861. their marriage was only registered in 1861 such a shame. it was hannah harker that i am interested in. thanks again dawn