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Maria BUTLER b 1870 Woolwich brother Charles BUTLER b 1866 Woolwich. Both in 1881 metropolitan district school. SKS has been to the LMA and found some of their records. THey were admitted January 1878. Charles discharged Jun 1882 and Maria discharged June 1886. She married William Pearson in 1890 Northfleet Kent. Both Maria and Charles were said to be illegitimate on their school records. So I am now presuming that Butler is their mothers maiden name. Maria gave her father as William BUtler on her mariage and occupation a labourer. The family on 1871 in a caravan is not them . So I am at a loss where to go next. So who was their mother?

maybe she didnt want her husband to know she was illegit. i haveone who had her dad down as deceased on her wedd cert in 1919, and i know for a fact her dad didnt die until 1951. he had run off with another woman when she was tiny.

who or what is the family on the 1871 in a caravan - where?

I take it you have tried to find their births? Was there no Admission Register for the Workhouse? OC

1871 I presume you have ruled this one out by following through on later census Name: Maria Butler Age: 1 Estimated birth year: abt 1870 Gender: Female Where born: London, England Civil parish: St Marylebone Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Registration district: Marylebone Sub-registration district: St John ED, institution, or vessel: 9 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 294 Household Members: Name Age Charles Butler 4 Eliza Butler 10 George Butler 8 John Butler 12 Maria Butler 46 Maria Butler 1 William Butler 45 Oh bother that is the family in a caravan How do you know that they were born in Woolwich? Maureen

How do you know the family in the caravan isn't yours? It looks good from here! OC

1881 probably why the 1871 family have been ruled out Name: William Butler Age: 53 Estimated birth year: abt 1828 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Maria Gender: Male Where born: Hampstead, Middlesex, England Civil parish: Hampstead County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Golden Yard Condition as to marriage: Married Education: Employment status: View image Occupation: Labourer Registration district: Hampstead Sub-registration district: Hampstead ED, institution, or vessel: 4 (Ward I) Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Charles Butler 14 Eliza Butler 20 George Butler 17 John Butler 22 Maria Butler 12 Maria Butler 52 Mary A. Butler Younger Than 1 William Butler 53

the admission register gives their nearest relative as brother in school and sister in school. So no parent details. Just gives the date admitted and discharged and they were illegitimate. The one in the caravan in 1871 is then switched to born in Hampstead and somebody has already got that family in their tree and that Maria married somebody else. Afte she is married on 1891 and 1901 census she has her birth place as Woolwich so the only one on 1881 born woolwich is the one in metropolitan school with brother Charles.

cant find any birth register for her.Have been trying to locate any parish records for Woolwich.Looked on LDS site and there are about 6 different films. so that will be a long drawn out process at £2.50 a time lol

the Maria Butler born 1870 Hampstead married somebody called Shurety as she is on the 1891 census with her parents

just nudging up incase anybody is bored this afternoon

I would say they were orphaned before the were admitted if they're listed as eachother's next of kin, but not definite as they could just have been abandoned. Have you searched the workhouse for any sign of their mother? It's a tough one because, of course, the man she named as her father may or may not have been... he could have been a grandfather or completely made up. Have you tracked Charles's marriage to see what that says regards father's name and occupation? Of course, Butler could be their mother's maiden name, or their father's name, or even a step-father's name. I'm out of ideas, sorry. Good luck with it.

No I have not been able to track Charles's marriage. I dont have access to ancestry at home so not been able to check the census after he left the school. Good idea about checking the workhouses though. Dont have her name but I suppose I could search for a female butler.....

Google tells me that Woolwich may well have been classed as Greenwich for registration districts. I found these: Name: Charles Butler Year of Registration: 1868 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Greenwich County: Greater London, Kent, London Volume: 1d Page: 752 Name: Charles Butler Year of Registration: 1868 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Greenwich County: Greater London, Kent, London Volume: 1d Page: 767 Name: Ann Maria Butler Year of Registration: 1870 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar DISTRICT: Greenwich County: Greater London, Kent, London Volume: 1d Page: 763

I have seen these 2 before but dont think they are mine. Charles was born 1866 so he would have been 2 when those ones were registered. With them being illegitimate I dont think she registered their births. Just did another search on 1881 for a possible mother and found a couple of possibles in service.