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Please could someone look up the 1891 census for BERTIE ADAMS born abt 1887. I'd like to know his parent's names/occupation if possible. I found him on Ancestry.co.uk but I can't look up his family. Many thanks Cheryl

Dear June, Thank you so much. i replied before I saw that you'd also found the Warwickshire Bertie! Sadly, he's not mine as my Bertie's father was Charles, a wheelwright, and I just can't find the family! Thanks again Cheryl

Name: Bertie Adams Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1887 Relation: Son Father's name: John Mother's name: Alice Gender: Male Where born: West Harnham, Wiltshire, England Civil parish: West Harnham Ecclesiastical parish: Harnham Town: West Harnham County/Island: Wiltshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Alderbury Sub-registration district: Salisbury ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Alice Adams 34 Beatrice Adams 7 Bertie Adams 4 Charley Adams 6 Emma Adams 12 John Adams 36 Sarah A Adams 15 Violet Adams 6/12 2nd one Name: Bertie Adams Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1887 Relation: Son Father's name: John Mother's name: Hannah Gender: Male Where born: Coventry, Warwickshire, England Civil parish: St Michael and St John Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas Town: Coventry County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Coventry Sub-registration district: St John ED, institution, or vessel: 31 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Bertie Adams 4 Ernest Adams 6 Freda Adams 2 Hannah Adams 36 Harry Adams 17 John Adams 51 Samuel Adams 3/12 Eda Bromwich 11 Laura Bromwich 13 Maud Bromwich 15 3rd one Name: Bertie Adams Age: 5 Estimated birth year: abt 1886 Relation: Son Father's name: Fred Mother's name: Ellen E Gender: Male Where born: Witham, Essex, England Civil parish: Witham Ecclesiastical parish: Witham Town: Witham County/Island: Essex Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Braintree Sub-registration district: Witham ED, institution, or vessel: 5 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Bertie Adams 5 Edith Adams 8 Ellen E Adams 39 Fred Adams 34 Rose E Adams 13 4th one Name: Bertie Adams Age: 3 Estimated birth year: abt 1888 Relation: Son Father's name: Thomas Mother's name: Eliza Gender: Male Where born: Lambeth, London, England Civil parish: Camberwell Ecclesiastical parish: Camden Town: Peckham County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Camberwell Sub-registration district: Peckham ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Bertie Adams 3 Eliza Adams 37 John Adams 1 Maria Adams 11 Thomas Adams 35 Thomas J Adams 14 William Adams 7 5th one Name: Bertie Adams Age: 3 Estimated birth year: abt 1888 Relation: Son Mother's name: Mary Gender: Male Where born: Newington, London, England Civil parish: Newington Ecclesiastical parish: St Pauls Town: London City County/Island: London Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: St Saviour Southwark Sub-registration district: St Mary Newington ED, institution, or vessel: 3 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Bertie Adams 3 Flora Adams 7 Mary Adams 49 6th one Name: Bertie Adams Age: 3 Estimated birth year: abt 1888 Relation: Foster Child (Child) Gender: Male Where born: Oxford Civil parish: St Giles Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Baptist Town: Summertown County/Island: Oxfordshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Headington Sub-registration district: St Clement ED, institution, or vessel: 21 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Bertie Adams 3 Charley Osborne 20 Arthur Saunders 20 Elizabeth Saunders 46 Frederick Saunders 22 James Saunders 47 Rose Saunders 14 here you go June x

June, Many thanks for your reply but it's a different Bertie as mine was born in Warwickshire - so sorry, I ought to have said. Cheryl

1891 census Name: B Adams Age: 5 Estimated birth year: abt 1886 Relation: Son Mother's name: A Gender: Male Where born: Birmingham Civil parish: Birmingham Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints Town: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Birmingham Sub-registration district: All Saints ED, institution, or vessel: 4 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age A Adams 45 B Adams 5 F Adams 21 H Adams 15 J Adams 17 M Adams 13 found this one June x

Oh Cheryl!! Why didn't you put all the information that you have in the first place???? Looking for Bertie Adams born ca 1887, I want parents names/occupations .......................... ............ is a heck of a lot different than looking for Bertie Adams born ca 1887, Warwickshire. Father might be named Charles and he may be a wheelwright. Makes it one H*** of a lot easier on us!! Think of the time that June must have spent looking uselessly, only to be told by you you ..... thats all wrong because ..................

Now, to start over, You are looking for Bertie Adams, b. ca 1887, Warwickshire. How do you know his father is called Charles and that he is a wheelwright? Have you found him on a previous census? If so which one so that we do not duplicate work already done.

I'm so sorry not to have given all the information originally. All I have is the marriage certificate which shows Bert Adams aged 23 married Ida Eveline Brown on 23.7.1910 in Birmingham. His father's name is given as Charles Adams, deceased, a wheelwright. I got excited because I found a Charles Adams, wheelwright living in Warwickshire on the 1881 census, and then found a Bertie born 3rd qr 1886 on BMD, who I also found on the 1891 census as born abt1887 in Warwickshire. In my excitement, I posted too quickly without giving all the information I had, for which I really do apologise. Sorry again Cheryl

Three Charles Adams on 1881 whose occ is wheelwright Charles H. Adams Silence abt 1835 Syresham, Northamptonshire, England Head Banbury Oxfordshire Charles M. Adams Caroline abt 1825 Froyle, Hampshire, England Head East Chiltington Sussex Chas. Henry Adams Lucy Maria abt 1846 Coventry, Warwickshire, England Head Coventry St Michael Warwickshire What is the source of your info? Do you have any certs? Please tell us ALL you know......... Reg

The fact that 'Bert' married in Birmingham does not necessarily mean that he was born there. Does the marriage cert actually have 'Bert' as his name? Who were the witnesses? Reg

Started with the 1901 census to see if that gave some help. This seems to be the only Bertie Adams born ca. 1886 Warwickshire about Bertie Adams Name: Bertie Adams Age: 15 Estimated birth year: abt 1886 Relation: Son Mother's name: Hannah W Gender: Male Where born: Coventry, Warwickshire, England Civil parish: Coventry Ecclesiastical parish: Foleshill St Paul County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Coventry Sub-registration district: Holy Trinity ED, institution, or vessel: 33 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 27 Household Members: Name Age Bertie Adams 15 Ball Grinder Ernest J Adams 16 Ball Grinder Frederick C Adams 12 Hannah W Adams 49 Married, Washerwoman (clothes) Samuel J Adams 10 Thomas R Adams 8 Jack T Swingler 3 Alfred Wooleston 22 Alfred E Wooleston 3 months Daisy Wooleston 1 Laura Wooleston 23 The Woolestons and Swngler are married childred/grandchildren.

Sorry to be so inefficient (and many thanks for helping me despite that). Literally all I have is the marriage certificate showing Bert's marriage (he is shown on the certificate as Bert). The only possible is I suppose the foster child in Oxfordshire. I wonder if his parents were Charles and Silence as they were living in Oxfordshire, and if Charles died before the 1891 census.

This is the bertie Adams of 1901 on the 1891 census. Dad is John about Bertie Adams Name: Bertie Adams Age: 4 Estimated birth year: abt 1887 Relation: Son Father's name: John Mother's name: Hannah Gender: Male Where born: Coventry, Warwickshire, England Civil parish: St Michael and St John Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas Town: Coventry County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View image Registration district: Coventry Sub-registration district: St John ED, institution, or vessel: 31 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Bertie Adams 4 Ernest Adams 6 Freda Adams 2 Hannah Adams 36 Harry Adams 17 John Adams 51 Watchmaker Samuel Adams 3/12 Eda Bromwich 11 Laura Bromwich 13 Maud Bromwich 15

The Charles Adams who is in Coventry in 1881 is still there in 1891.....youngest child aged 20. Bear in mind that 'deceased' fathers were sometimes invented as face-savers......... Reg

You should also consider as to whether he did actually have a dad called Charles who was a wheelwright!!! It is not unknown for fathers to reported as deceased and with names/occupations that did not exist!!! This may be because the person marrying was actually illegitimate, and didn't want to say so, ot they wanted the occupation to sound better than ir was!!! There were (and still are!!) no checks to determine that you are giving the correct fathers' name(s) on a marriage certificate!

If Bert made up his dad's details then it explains why the family is so hard to trace! I just assumed that it had to be true as I've got the marriage certificate, but it's obviously not as easy as that. Cheryl

So he's definately not the Coventry Charles Adams then. The Oxfordshire one seems the strongest possibility. The witnesses names on Bert's marriage certificate are John Chambers and Ann Resuggan. If the 'deceased' might be made up would that mean that Bert's mother could have been a single woman called Adams?? Cheryl

That's correct ......................... his mother would be called Adams.