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Hi Anne I am excited now, guess Jan will be over the Moon. Janice x

Message for Mhairi Go for it Mhairi if anyone can find it you will. Janice x

Mhairi YES YES YES I'll take all the help I can get, and worship at the Queens' throne for ever if you actually find anything. If you can't find anything you'll have to settle for my undying gratitude for at least giving it a go. Jan x

Hi Jeanette you posted a look-up request on my BIVRI thread. I think you will find your brick wall has come down as I have Janet Morson on my family tree. Her sister Margaret married the brother of my g g grandmother. I will be in touch with you. Anne

Hey Jan I'm going to the Edinburgh Records office on Friday if you want me to have a look for John Birkett/Morson c1860 birth. Mhairi p.s Brandy v Gin...would rather have some Vodka if theres any alcohol on the go :)

DEAR ALL I'D LIKE TO THANK EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU FOR THE INFORMATION AND ADVICE OFFERED I think that the Janet Morson that REG found is the most likely. THANK YOU REG Janice provided a date of birth 15/11/1833. Parents - James Morson and Agness Millar. Plus millions of other possibilities, loads of documents, advice on the merits of taking up alcohol consumption (Brandy v Gin) as a potential cure for the stress's and strains of researching your family tree. THANK YOU JANICE - A LIGHTHOUSE IN THE OCEAN OF IGNORANCE Thanks also to MHAIRI for her advice on Scotlandspeople and soundex, oh! and the joys of unwedded bliss. Thanks also to DEREK and OC for your help. I still need to trace Janets son JOHN BIRKETT c.1860 And the marriage of JANET MORTON to JOHN BIRKETT c 1826 Not to mention John Birkett before 1861. But tomorrow is another day. ONCE AGAIN THANK YOU EVERYONE LOVE JAN X

Hi OC I do know that Janet and John's daughter Mary Jane married a Thomas Reed (He was also a witness to their daughter Dorothy Ann's marriage). The name Reed appears elsewhere (can't remember just where) mis-spelt as Reid. As for the possibility of a mistake with the spelling of Morson, it could well be. On her daughter Elizabeths birth certificate Janet gives her maiden name as Morson but is unable to sign the register with anything other than a cross. So I'm assuming the she was illiterate and had to get someone else to fill in any forms etc. I do know that in all the census's she puts her place of birth as Scotland, except, (I think) in 1881 where she puts place of birth as CAMSEE. I'm told that CAMPSIE is pronounced in this way by locals, if she was getting someone else to fill in the forms they may well have written it phonetically. However 'That way lies madness', I have to limit my scope in someway, and so far, Morson of Campsie seems to lead somewhere. (Straight up the garden path?). Take care Jan

Hi Derek, Thanks for that I was going to hold off signing up to the scotlandspeople's thing because its due to be updated, but I think I may have to bite the (financial) bullet if I want to make any progress. (So far this month I've bought a dozen birth/death/mattiage certificates with more ordered, my family are looking at the larder in dispair. Will they ever eat again?, or will Mum spend all the housekeeping on dead rellies). If only to look up the BIRKETT/MORSON marriage in 1866. I was thinking about Mhairi's comments and it dawned on me that although John and Janet may not have been married at the time of her sons birth, they may well have decided to regularise the relationship later. And if they did get married later they wouldn't neccessarily want to do so in England, where people would think of them as married anyway, so it would make sense for them to go back to Scotland and do the deed on the QT. (Again, not unheard of in this family). Anyway, thanks for the advice, All the best Jan

Is it just coincidence that there is a marriage to a James Reid, and then in 1901, there is an Agnes Reid stsying with them? Common name, I know, but... And I keep thinking how easily Morson and Morrison could be confused, especially Morrison spoken in a scottish accent! OC

hi if you find the birth certif on scotlandspeople site, on it will also be marked the date and place of marriage that is if they were married cheers derek

Hi All, I've just read Mhairi's message, and I think she may well have a point. JOHN BIRKETT JNR may not be John Birkett Jnr. Is there a JOHN MORSON born c.1860 anywhere on record? If Janet and John weren't married then in her native Scotland she may have felt uncomfortable putting his name on the birth records, however once she moved to England who was to know any different. Just looking at (slightly) more recent family history, it's not unheard of for people in the tree to claim wedlock where none exsisted, (or at least both parties are married-just not to each other). Thanks for all your help everyone All the best Jan

Hi Jeanette Done the soundex as Mhairi suggested and there were two one in 1866 as Mhairi said and one later 1904. Not yours I am afraid. 1866 is Robert Low Brewster / Hannah Morrison 1904 is George Washington Birchwood / Joan Nichol Morrison. Have found a baby born abt right time to a Morson though? Will PM details to you tomorrow. Janice

Just a wee reminder that Scotlandspeople will very soon be updating their site with Images of the OPR's so dont go buying any at the moment. On another note, if you put in the names Birkett and Morson and use soundex on both you get one marriage...however it is in 1866. Dont have any credits to tell you who it is. One reason you may not be able to find a marriage, other than they never actually married, is that they where married by a non conformist church and the records have not been put on SP (if there are records, before 1855). Good luck with the search Mhairi

Hi Jeanette 15/11/1833 MORSON: JANET: Parents Names and Frame Number: James Morson / AGNESS MILLAR: FR1031 PARISH: CAMPSIE GROSS DATA: 475/00: 0004 You can order on line as there is no image available: It will cost you £10 and you need to be on Scotlands People Site. Just type it in and press search, it is Scotland's People GRO. No Marriage either in Old Parish Records or Marriages which commence 1855 and run through to 1906. There is a marriage in 1858 of a Janet Morson in Cadder (Eastern District) Lanark However it is to a James Reid? Have searched for you, but it is not there at all? Janice

OK Jeanette Take another look and speak to you tomorrow Janice

Hi Janice Yes I'm almost certain, Or as certain as I can be of an event I have no record. They appear in the various census's as:- 1861 Walkers Court Janet Birkett abt 1836 Camsee Scotland Wife Westoe Durham John Birkett abt 1831 Manchester Lancashire Head Labourer John Birkett abt 1960 son Westoe Durham 1891 21 Lower Thames Street James Birkett abt 1876 South Shields Durham Son Westoe Janet Birkett abt 1836 Scotland Head Widow 1901 Thrift St James Birkett abt 1876 South Shields Son Janet Birkett abt 1835 Scotland Head Eliza Reed etc etc My family are moaning about me hogging the computor at the moment, so I'd better sign off until tomorrow, then it's once more into the frey

Hi Jeanette I have just run a check for marriage 1855 to 1865 Morson & Birkett and No Match at all. Even when I did all Districts search, so looks like they did not marry there? Unless it was earlier than this. Double checked for Birkett Births and got one match in 1860, but not when I put John in for his first name, it came back no match. Are you sure he was called John? Maybe he used John but had another name registered? Will take a further look for you. Janice

Hi Janice, I'll try and look into that, thank you. I assume that she was married in Scotland, as her first child John Birkett was born there, by the time he was a year old the family had moved to South Shields. It is also possible that she was mistaken ( or not quite truthful) in her year of birth. In all the census's that she appears in, from 1861 onwards her approximate d.o.b. is consistantly 1836, but I don't suppose that it was unusual for a woman to lose 2 or 3 years off her age! (I could certainly do with losing a couple of decades off mine). Thank you for looking All the best Jan

Jeanette Are you sure the first child was born in Scotland. I have run a check from 1855 to 1860 for John Birkett birth in Sterling and No Match. There are 3 John Birkett births in 1860 which I located on 1837 site. One in Wigan, One in Stockport & One in Runcorn? Which is the area where John Birkett Senior came from? Janice

Hi Reg Yeah! You're right, the problem is finding a record of her marriage so I can order a copy and verify the information. Given that her son was born in about 1860, my best bet is that she married JOHN BIRKETT in about 1859-1860, but it could have been any time before that really. She was quite old to be having a first child at 24, so she may have been married for a while before JOHN Jnr's arrival. There is also the additional problem that the MORSON family generally had lots of children, and liked to use similar names for them. So there is a chance that any Janet I get may not be the correct one! Perhaps it's time to go a drown my sorrows! Thanks for you help Jan