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Debs I have sent you the copies x So basically it seems that she was in some form of relationship with Philip and having his children long before they married. Shaz x

Hi Deb, Familysearch also has sister Rosina's parents listed as George Redpath and Mary Banks. There's a submitted entry for this too, but also an extracted entry. Liz

On the IGI familysearch.org says that there was a Mary Redpath born 8 Nov 1855 in Tranent who died 24 Jan 1926 and married a Philip Murphy on 16 Mar 1883. Her parents were Mary Banks and George Redpath apparently.

Ahh so the kids are living with her but the husbands not. Wierd. Thanks,

Interesting Shaz and Deb, See what I found 1881 census. Dwelling: East Bearford Census Place: Haddington, Haddington, Scotland Source: FHL Film 0224026 GRO Ref Volume 709 EnumDist 11 Page 6 Marr Age Sex Birthplace Mary REIDPATH W 65 M Tranent, Haddington, Scotland Rel: Head Occ: Formerly Agr Labourer Roseina REIDPATH U 33 F Tranent, Haddington, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Agricultural Labourer Mary REIDPATH U 25 F Tranent, Haddington, Scotland Rel: Daur Occ: Agricultural Labourer Ramsay SWAN 9 M Tranent, Haddington, Scotland Rel: Grandson Occ: Scholar Margaret MURPHY 7 F Tranent, Haddington, Scotland Rel: Grand Daur Occ: Scholar Hugh MURPHY 5 M Tranent, Haddington, Scotland Rel: Grandson Mary MURPHY 2 F Tranent, Haddington, Scotland Hugh and Margaret listed here too. Liz

Doubt i would have been able to work that one out, thanks very much. Ive pm'd you. x

Well you ended up getting me intrigued and now I am the bearer of bad news..... Mary was Illegitimate.... born to Mary Redpath in Tranent East Lothian on October 14th 1878.... This is defo her as I took the place of her birth from the census return and when I couldnt find a Mary Murphy born 78/79 in Tranent I checked out Mary Redpath and up she came... Mary Banks Redpath. I have to go and sort the kids out but if you pm me your email addy I would be more than happy to send you the census and Mary's birth registration. Shaz x Oh yes a sister Maggie and Brother Hugh are on the census but they are older than Mary... all have the name Murphy. x

Thanks for all your help on this Shaz, i really appreciate it.

So that would make her born 1879, but shes not appearing anywhere. Hummmmmm. Are you looking at the full 1891 record? If so, does it have any brothers or sisters and parents places of birth? Do you have any of these saved? If so i would appreciate any copies. debjanes (hot . com)

So that means that the philip you found on the 1881 who was single could be right (he wasnt married by then) but did have a child. How did you know he was single? Did you view the full thing? Was he living with someone but not married? x Deb

No Debs she doesnt seem to have been born there at all... and get this one... I just checked out the census return for Philip Murphy for 1891... and there is Philip and Mary (I'm assuming they are the same ones) and yes there is a daughter Mary who is apparently aged 12.... work that one out!

Shaz...your a star. So they married 4ish years after mary was born. Wasnt that usual then? Perhaps that the area that mary was born then.

Liz, Didnt think the igi had scotland for some reason. Thanks,

I found 5 marriages for Philip Murphy in Scotland between 1855 and 1930 and one is to a Mary Redpath it was in 1883 in Dalkieth, Midlothian. Shaz x

Deb, Marriage in IGI PHILIP MURPHY Marriages: Spouse: MARY ANN MONAGHAN Family Marriage: 04 MAR 1872 Anderston, Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland Nothing like Redpath though. Liz

Im thinking that maybe this is the fathers marriage: Philip Murphy marriage 1872 (its the only marriage by that name for many years - ive checked) and its only Lanark which is very near by. When i narrow down the area it comes up as Anderston. (was hoping a one credit check might show the wifes name as Mary Redpath or something spelt similar. Which might mean that Mary was born in Lanark/Anderston too. Does that place feature on the Philips in the 1881 at?

Sorry Debs trying to sort things out here ... 100 things at once lol Ok what did you want me to look at?? I looked at the census return for Philip in Lasswade and he is not married at all...... Just looked at one of the others.... Living in Govan Lanark his wifes name is Mary but no child named Mary youngest child is Elizabeth aged 1mth so she was born around feb/march 81

Deb, On scotlandspeople If you put in both christian and surnames and some approx. years from ? to ? this will tell you how many hits (if any) you get without having to use a credit, this is called a free search. You can also search through the Counties, one at a time to narrow down place of marriage, can be a bit tedious, but it does work. Liz

Did that census result show any Philip Murphys in Lanarkshire?

You dont have one credit to use to check this do you (will it tell you the wifes name when you only spend one credit?): Philip Murphy marriage 1872 (its the only marriage by that name for many years - ive checked) and its only Lanark which is very near by. x