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Hi Maz I even searched on all children born & living in Poplar 1859 - 1861 in case their names were really mangled, but came up with nothing. Herbert always says he is born in Poplar. Do you have any certs in case the birthplace is slightly different? - ie district within Poplar?

Phoenix, I found both childrens' birth refs on beta and they are both Poplar. Found on 1901 at 91, Old Row, Gravesend; Margaret Blan 1836 widow Walter J Blan 1860 Poplar son Jane Cocker 1830 Babbscombe Devon Sister in Law John Blin death Jan 1895 Gravesend vol2a page 439 Also 1901 at 2, Echo Villa, Old Rd East, Gravesend; Herbert J 1859 commission agent Emily F 1867 St Pauls West London wife Douglas J 1892 Gravesend Eleen E 1900 Gravesend Gladys H 1889 Gravesend Marriage for Herbert to Emily Frances Dyer Jul qtr 1885 Greenwich vol 1d page 1410 Walter doesn't seem to marry and his death July qtr 1906 Gravesend vol 2a page 384. Cannot find them at all before 1871 which makes me wonder if they weren't overseas? Wonder if John was soldier, injured etc and then becomes agent when living near in-laws?

In 1881 they are Bliss's... Herbert J. Bliss abt 1859 Poplar, Middlesex, England Son Milton in Gravesend Kent John Bliss abt 1832 Braunton, Devon, England Head Milton in Gravesend Kent Margarett Bliss abt 1832 Poplar, Middlesex, England Wife Milton in Gravesend Kent Walter J. Bliss abt 1860 Poplar, Middlesex, England Son Milton in Gravesend Kent Mary Stephens abt 1858 Brasted, Kent, England Servant Milton in Gravesend Kent Occupation: Woollen Agent Source information: RG11/872 Registration district: Gravesend Sub registration district: Gravesend ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Folio: 95 Page: 22 (click to see others on page) GSU Number: 1341207 Georgina.

This is John in 1851, when he's an apprentice draper: Name: John Polin Age: 19 Estimated birth year: abt 1832 Relation: Apprentice Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Braunton, Devon, England Civil parish: Taunton St Mary Magdalen Town: Taunton County/Island: Somerset Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Disability: View image Source information: HO107/1922 Registration district: Taunton Sub-registration district: Pitminster ED, institution, or vessel: 4a Folio: 485 Page: 26 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 97

This is John's father in 1861: Name: David W W Blin Age: 61 Estimated birth year: abt 1800 Relation: Head Household: View other family members Gender: Male Where born: Devonport, Devon, England Civil parish: Withycombe Raleigh County/Island: Devon Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: View image Source information: RG9/1383 Registration district: St Thomas Sub-registration district: Exmouth ED, institution, or vessel: 8 Folio: 26 Page: 13 (click to see others on page) Household schedule number: 93

Georgina, Jane and Phoenix THANK YOU so much for spending all this time for me! I am really very grateful! Am busily printing out the info so it is all being put to good use. I don't really know about the army theory, they were definitely in Poplar in early 1860, it is really annoying me that we can't find them even through the children - there are not many Herberts and Walters born in Poplar at that time! Maz. XX

Maz I know it's a longshot but as John was a Woolen Agent have you thought he may be in Scotland or Wales during the 1861 census. I have even looked at the 1861 census on 1837 online incase Ancestry missed him, but no luck. Georgina.

And on 1841 in Cornwall (none born in county and same family as 1851); David Blin 1800 excise officer Ann Blin 1796 James 1825 Josiah 1827 Jane B 1829 John 1831 Ann 1833 Harriet 1836 Ellen 1838 living at Waterloo cottage. Ann the mother lives with Harriet (who marries William Stoyle) in 1861. Ellen marries 1862 either John Meads/ John Adams Ann marries 1863 in Poplar either John Moultue/Frank Sheppard. All are born in Devon through census'. Phoenix...well done finding him as polin!! and Georgina too!.

thanks Georgina and Jane - I think we will have to call a halt to this one for the moment, looks like they just don't want to be found! thank you everyone for all your help and suggestions Maz. XX