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Sorry I've been gone, kids giving me grief for PC. OK I'm guessing that Mark died somewhere between 1968 and 1972 (sorry, can't be more accurate). Steve

not sure if elaine is stilla round so I'll start having a look for death

DEATH June Q 1969 Mark Tolley dob 12 FEB 1899 West Bromwich - 9b 2034

I've looked at births from 1896 to 1901 in the March and June qtrs and can't find a birth for a Mark Tolley. This is the nearest I can find:- Edward Ernest M. Tolley June qtr. 1901, Walsall, 6b, 773 Perhaps the initial M. is for Mark? He could have added a few years to his age either for getting married or to get into the army etc. Kath. x

I've also been trawling for what I can find I suspectr this is a case of him being born before his parents were married so therefore registered in his mothers maiden name or his mother marrying someone else at a later date and him taking on his new fathers name. That could explain the absence of a marriage registration as it could be listed under a birth name. The simplest step is going to be finding a birth certificate for your own father and seeing exactly what is listed on there as it may show a change of name. Either that or trawling through every marriage for Mary Roberts at about the right time and cross referncing for a groom called Mark to find his other surname. Zoe

Hi folks, Sorry, needed to tend the animals ! Either Mark's name wasn't actually Mark ... ( as suggested, could be a middle name) ..or Mark could have been born in a different country / at sea / etc ... and just been brought up in Midlands.... thus leading him and others to THINK he was born there ! I always thoughts I was born somewhere completely different to what's on my birth cert !!!! Got to go again ......sorry..... back later ! Elaine ;-)

He is actually named Mark Tolley on my fathers birth certificate. I have found this on Ancestory: Name: Mark Tolley Year of Registration: 1902 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Dudley County: Staffordshire, Worcestershire Volume: 6c Page: 168 (click to see others on page) I suppose this is a possibility, although someone earlier found a 1899 birth. Steve

I have looked on Ancestry on both the Beta and FreeBMD versions of births and I can't find the one you mention in Dec. qtr. of 1902. Kath. x

Just looked on Ancestry again and the 1902 record that you found was a marriage and not a birth. Kath. x

Mark Tolley married Mary Roberts March quarter 1923 - Dudley 6b 1262 I'd send off straight away for this marriage certificate which will give you both their ages at the time of marriage and the names of their fathers. I can't understand why we can't find a birth for Mark unless the person who informed of his death didn't know him very well or just guessed at his birth year. At least with the marriage certificate it'd be Mark himself saying how old he was so there's a good chance he'd have got it right ;o) Do keep us updated on your progress and let us know what information you get from the marriage certificate - otherwise i'll wake in the middle of the night three years from now and NEED to know Zoe

Well done Zoe!!! Kath. x

kathleen you don't want to know how many credits I used on 1837 cross referncing every Mary marriage in the right area until I found them Zoe going for a lie down

I can't tell you how much I appreciate all this help/advice, thanks to all that have contributed. Steve

OK, if anyone that contributed to this three and a half years ago is still here/intrested, he was illegitimate as suggested. He was in fact registered in 1899 as Mark Brookes Tolley, Brookes was his mothers maiden name.

I appreciate it's been a while, and I hope Zoe didn't have too many sleepless nights, but I've also been busy with the wife's family; they're from Italy!!!!

Many thanks again.

Steve

Well, I'm still here Stephen!! Glad you found what you were looking for - even if it has taken quite a while.

Kath. x