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just seen that one myself whilst checking. could well be as mum said she worked as a housekeeper in birkenhead after samuel died, sara

janice, im not sure without checking with mum. ruth appears on the 1881 census but not the 91, so im presuming she was dead. samuel hughes, not sure but he was on the 1861 and not the 1871. ruth was a widow and came with her kids after he died to birkenhead, worked as a housekeeper for the owner of a foundry there. nathaniel we now think died 1888 in woolwich. thomas i know nothing at all about. mary hughes married a william taylor, had annie, ruth and ?thomas, william ? ran away to the usa,she telling everyone she was a widow. i think she lived to a ripe old age, possibly to her 80`s even 90`s. not sure of dates.sara

Is this Ruth in 1871? The image does say Ruthin. Ruth Hughes abt 1816 Ruthear, Denbighshire, Wales Servant Birkenhead Cheshire (Ruth is a widow) Charles Morgan abt 1853 Newport, Isle of Man, Isle of Man Boarder Birkenhead Cheshire Thomas Rimmer abt 1856 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Boarder Birkenhead Cheshire John Williams abt 1851 Ysgeifiog, Flintshire, Wales Boarder Birkenhead Cheshire

Do you know when any of them died?

just checked on cheshire bmd and there is a multitude of mary hughes born chester between 1850 - 52. none the wiser, sara

Fingers crossed then!

september 1843 would tie in with a oct - dec 1842 wedding. could be a possibility, sara

janice, ill give it a go. having trouble finding mary now. would try finding her older brother, but looking for a thomas hughes in liverpool is like looking for a needle in a haystack. sara

In September 1843 there is a Male Lloyd registered in Ruthin. Might be worth ordering that cert with the checkpoint of mother called Ruth. (See FreeBMD)

i have just found a thomas lloyd married oct - dec 1842 in rhuthin. others on page include a ruth jones and a ruth williams. could be a possibility, but i guess, short of ordering certificate no way of knowing who married who. even then it could be guesswork. i just thought thomas cos she may have named her son thomas after dead hubby. mary (daughter) also i believe had a son called thomas who died young. if i order marys birth certificate would it have ruths(mum) maiden name on or her first married name. maybe this is the way to go, now i just have to find marys birth. sara

hi, she lives virtually opposite asda, but right back off the main road - trem -y- something. used to visit regulary when mum and dad still lived in wales (buckley). but since they moved to cheshire 18 months ago havnt been so much. i also had ancestors from the llandudno/ conway area so am hoping to get up later in the year - money. time and children allowing, to do some sleuthing. maybe i could get hold of some chuch records. ive looked on family search, but as their records are incomplete, havnt discovered much about this part of the family there either. sara

Hi Sara, Yes, get back regularly as my sister still lives in Kinmel Bay and Mum is on Sandy Cove. We went to Towyn primary school and then Ysgol Emrys ap Iwan in Abergele. Whereabouts in KB is your friend? Janice

hi janice, i lived on the west parade rhyl for a year when i was about 7 and then we moved to prestatyn, were we lived till i was 18. went to ysgol mair and blessed edward jones schools. a friend of mine still lives in kimnel bay. have you been back to the area recently? rhyl prom and shopping area have changed drastically since i was a child. i used to work in one of the arcades giving change for something like 50p/hour! sara

ive checked the bmds on ancestry. com rather than ancestry uk regarding samuel hughes Llanfyllin and there are no ruths on the same page. i did find a ruth lloyd married 1848 oct - dec, but when i checked others on the page there was no samuel. i still think the samuel hughes oct - dec 1849 ruthin is a possibility but i cant x ref it. also their son thomas was born around 1849 but in liverpool, so whether the dates would add up im not sure. thanks for checking, looking through those beta indexes is slow going and eye straining isnt it? sara

Hi Sara, I've looked at others in N Wales as well as Ruthin but there hasn't been a match. Ruth and Samuel aren't common names with those surnames so the search isn't hard. There were some Liverpool ones too and West Derby but again they didn't cross reference. Where outside Rhyl were you? I was in Kinmel Bay! Janice

I've checked the beta indexes for 1842 - 1850 without success. One quarter had Lloyd missing so if anyone could check the 2nd qtr of 1849 for Ruth Lloyd and Samuel Hughes that would be great. Likely candidate is Samuel Hughes, Llanfyllin XXVII 127 but I can't cross reference it. Janice

sorry i slightly misread your last post. do you think ruth would be indexed under her first married name as that might make my search easir, sara

janice, i thought your maiden name went on the marriage cert regardless? my sisters did when she married for the second time. i maybe wrong. i also know the area a little as when we were children we had a caravan on a farm a few miles outside ruthin and lived near rhyl. we had such freedom, so different today. thanks again for everyones help. i am doing this for my mum also. her and dad went to ruthin records office recently to try and get some info. but time flew by too quickly and therefore with little success. if i knew were samuel and ruth married ( i think either ruthin or liverpool at an outside chance) it would help. the only possible match for ruthin is samuel hughes oct - dec 1849, but there is just a ? were it says click to see others on page. sorry for rambling, just gets frustrating, cheers, sara

Hi Sara, For Ruth's 2nd marriage she would be Ruth Lloyd not whatever her maiden name was. However, her maiden name should be on the cert for the 2nd marriage if you can find it. Hope we can help you make progress on this one. The area is close to where I grew up so I can picture the places. Janice

here is the 1851 census. family (ruth remarried by this time) now living in chester Mary Hughes abt 1851 Chester, Cheshire, England Daughter Chester St John the Baptist Cheshire View Record Ruth Hughes abt 1814 Ruthin, Denbighshire, Wales Wife Chester St John the Baptist Cheshire View Record Samuel Hughes abt 1803 Wellington, Shropshire, England Head Chester St John the Baptist Cheshire View Record Thomas Hughes abt 1849 Liverpool Son Chester St John the Baptist Cheshire View Record Nathaniel Lloyd abt 1843 Denbighshire, Wales Stepson Chester St John the Baptist Cheshire and for good measure the 1861 - now living in stoke. nathaniel has the name hughes but in later censuses he is back to lloyd again. Record Mary Hughes abt 1852 Cheshire, England Daughter Stoke Cheshire View Record Nathaniel Hughes abt 1842 North Wales, Llanrhaiadr Son Stoke Cheshire View Record Ruth Hughes abt 1815 North Wales, Ruthin Denbil Wife Stoke Cheshire View Record Samuel Hughes abt 1801 Wellington, Shropshire, England Head Stoke Cheshire View Record Thomas Hughes abt 1849 Liverpool, Lancashire, England Son Stoke Cheshire. cheers, sara