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Hello Julie Would you please look in the 1861 census for Lancashire, most likely Wigan, for John Robert Whitehead born Wigan about 1836 I think he is a Carter by trade. Thanks in advance John

ROSALYN - Sorry, I've just typed it in incorrectly in the search, my mistake. Here we go - Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Births Mar 1880 DAVIS Robert Thomas Shoreditch 1c 64 Births Sep 1880 Davis Robert Charles Holborn 1b 809 Births Dec 1880 Davis Robert Frederick T Marylebone 1a 592 Births Dec 1881 DAVIS Robert Shoreditch 1c 70 Births Mar 1882 Davis Robert Bethnal Green 1c 296 Births Jun 1882 Davis Robert William C Brentford 3a 94 Births Dec 1882 DAVIS Robert Chelsea 1a 385 Births Sep 1883 DAVIS Robert Brentford 3a 85 DAVIS Robert Paul St. Giles 1b 605 Births Mar 1884 DAVIS Robert Pancras 1b 162 DAVIS Robert Bethnal Green 1c 275 Births Dec 1884 Davis Robert Holborn 1b 810 Davis Robert William St. Giles 1b 621 Births Mar 1885 DAVIS Robert Poplar 1c 677 Births Jun 1885 Davis Roberta Alice Mile End 1c 444 Births Sep 1885 Davis Robert Chelsea 1a 320 Births Mar 1886 DAVIS Robert William Bethnal Green 1c 257 Births Jun 1886 Davis Robert Charles Poplar 1c 636 Births Sep 1886 Davis Robert George Pancras 1b 62 Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Births Dec 1881 DAVIS Frances Maria London C 1c 3 Births Dec 1882 DAVIS Frances Julia M London City 1c 3 Births Mar 1883 DAVIS Frances London C 1c 4 Births Mar 1884 DAVIS Frances Mary Brentford 3a 75 Births Jun 1885 Davis Frances Rebecca Bethnal Green 1c 226 Births Dec 1885 Davis Frances Maud Kensington 1a 175 Births Jun 1886 Davis Frances Hackney 1b 4_[38]4 Births Mar 1887 DAVIS Frances Elizabeth Hackney 1b 506 Births Dec 1887 Davis Frances Shoreditch 1c 115 Births Mar 1888 DAVIS Frances Grace Edmonton 3a 412 Births Jun 1889 Davis Frances Whitechapel 1c 340 These are all of the births listed under a search of Middlesex from the free bmd rootsweb .com page. It's a really useful site, its free and allows you to view the source material and defines which areas each registration district covers. Hope that this helps, Julie

LORNA Thomas 1871 census Thomas Norton Age: 78 Estimated birth year: abt 1793 Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Shotteswell, Warwickshire, England Civil Parish or Township: Burton Dassett Town: North End County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England He was there alone listed as a pauper. Not related to Carter's are you? They lived next door to him them. 1861 Thomas Norton Age: 66 Estimated birth year: abt 1795 Relation: Head Gender: Male Where born: Shotteswell, Warwickshire, England Civil parish: Burton Dassett County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England In 61 he was a widow and ag lab. Can't find him at all in the 1851 though. Does this sound like the right man? Could this be Susanna do you think? Deaths Sep 1853 Norton Susannah Banbury 3a 367 Banbury Created 1st July 1837. Mainly in Oxfordshire, but included parts of Northamptonshire and Warwickshire. Sub-districts : Banbury; Bloxham; Cropredy; Swalcliffe. GRO volumes : XVI (1837-51); 3a (1852-1930). Alkerton, Banbury, Barford St. John, Barford St. Michael, Bloxham, Bodicote, Bourton, Broughton, Clattercott, Claydon, Cropredy, Drayton, East Adderbury, East Shutford, Epwell, Grimsbury, Hanwell, Hook Norton, Horley, Hornton, Milcombe, Milton, Mollington, Neithrop, North Newington, Prescote, Shenington, Sibford Ferris, Sibford Gower, South Newington, Swalcliffe, Tadmarton, Wardington, West Adderbury, West Shutford, Wigginton, Wroxton. Registers now divided between Oxfordshire, Mid Warwickshire and Towcester & Brackley districts. I will come back to this later on! You may well look at these and think that it is the totally wrong man! More than possible but he was the only one that came up with that place of birth.

LORNA Oh, this is a nice simple one :~) Your ancestors were a bit posh, I'm suitably impressed.... 1861 Hannah Linsey abt 1843 Cheshunt, Hertfordshire, England Visitor Bishops Stortford Hertfordshire View Record Ann E Norton abt 1843 Romford, Essex, England Daughter Bishops Stortford Hertfordshire View Record Henry Norton abt 1813 Shotswell, Warwickshire, England Head Bishops Stortford Hertfordshire View Record Henry Norton abt 1841 Romford, Essex, England Son Bishops Stortford Hertfordshire View Record Martha Norton abt 1814 Whitechurch, Shropshire, England Wife Bishops Stortford Hertfordshire View Record Martha Norton abt 1846 Hornchurch, Essex, England Daughter Bishops Stortford Hertfordshire View Record Sarah Norton abt 1848 Ware, Hertfordshire, England Daughter Bishops Stortford Hertfordshire Bishops Stortford Ecclesiatical parish: Hockerill All Saints County/Island: Hertfordshire Country: England Having difficulty reading Henry's job - inspector -------way, (think it might be railway, gives the railway companys 3 letters but copperplate capitals out of context floor me - will find out for you, have a friend whose a railway enthusiast + he'll no doubt be able to fill this in!) Henry 20 carpenter, Ann 18 l;ooks like in training for governess, Martha 15 and Sarah 13 both scholars. Hanna the visitor was a dressmaker. If you message me your email I can mail you the census page if that helps? 1851 Name Estimated Birth Year Birthplace Relationship Civil Parish County/Island View Record Hannah E Norton abt 1843 Romford, Essex, England Daughter Great Amwell Hertfordshire View Record Henry Norton abt 1813 Shortswell, Warwickshire, England Head Great Amwell Hertfordshire View Record Henry Norton abt 1841 Romford, Essex, England Son Great Amwell Hertfordshire View Record Martha Norton abt 1814 Whitchurch, Shropshire, England Wife Great Amwell Hertfordshire View Record Martha Norton abt 1845 Romford, Essex, England Daughter Great Amwell Hertfordshire View Record Sarah Norton abt 1848 Gt Amwell, Hertfordshire, England Daughter Great Amwell Hertfordshire Henry is a railway plate layer on this one. Will get back to you on that if you like. :~)

Eric - Could this be him in the 1861? Elizabeth Hoare abt 1848 Scotland Daughter Hulme Lancashire Harriet Hoare abt 1830 Wales Wife Hulme Lancashire Harriet Hoare abt 1857 Ireland Daughter Hulme Lancashire Henry Hoare abt 1855 Ireland Son Hulme Lancashire John Hoare abt 1818 Ireland Head Hulme Lancashire Mary A Hoare abt 1843 Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Daughter Hulme Lancashire Thomas Hoare abt 1854 Canterbury, Kent, England Son Hulme Lancashire Civil parish: Hulme Ecclesiatical parish: St Michael County/Island: Lancashire Country: England Looks like 127 Lower Mop(?) Lane The exciting thing is the occupation given - Chelsea Pensioner . Porter Insurance Office. Now I don't have the faintest where you would look but I bet you anything that there will be records of Chelsea Pensioners! Hope you can follow that up :~) I have not found 1851 as Ancestry only covers the English and Welsh census. Looking at the birth places I think he was probably in Ireland then, what do you think? He certainly moved about a lot! Do you know much about him? If I were you I would do a google on Chelsea Pensioners - I've a feeling that that means he's something to do with military. Let me know how you get on - this is very fascinating. If it's what I think it is I had a distant relative who was in the same in Ireland at the same period. Just out of curiosity would he be protestant? I've not done the searches or investigations for mine yet. Haven't dared for fear of what I'll find. Julie UPDATE - DEFINATELY MILITARY - TRY ASKING FOR HOW TO GET THE INFO ON THE TIPS BOARD - THERES SPECIALISTS IN ALSORTS ON THIS SITE.

Cole Hello Julie, So sorry to be such a nuisance, but afraid I have no other details, I was searching for Cole on I.G.I. and found them and think that they could be a branch of my husband's family, as area etc. is the same. Thank you so much for taking the interest. Happy New Year to you. Jean

Hi Julie Thanks for the offer. Would it be possible for you to look for the following persons on the 1851 census. Sorry don't know the area. John Hoare age 33 born Ireland may be married to Mary or be a widower. Daughters Mary Hoare age 8 born Sheffield. and Elizabeth Hoare age 3 born Scotland. These are the only known relatives at this time. Any information would be gratefully received. Regards Ericx

Julie Ann - Sent you a personal message because it was a bit of a long list. :~)

Julie Ann - I've not forgotten you! Not be a mo!

Jean, how do you know about them? Have you got them on say the 1901 census so I can work back? It's just getting some common point of reference. Sorry I'm not being much help :~)

Here we go - Sorry, checked the originals and as I feared this pre-dates the mothers maiden name being included. Births Mar 1880 DAVIES Robert William Pancras 1b 182 Births Dec 1880 Davies Robert Owen Kensington 1a 14 Births Dec 1881 DAVIES Robert Kensington 1a 92 Births Jun 1882 Davies Robert Islington 1b 243 Births Dec 1882 DAVIES Robert Bethnal Green 1c 250 DAVIES Robert James Holborn 1b 776 Births Mar 1883 DAVIES Robert Pancras 1b 84 Births Dec 1886 Davies Robert Edward London C. 1c 23 Births Jun 1887 Davies Robert Joel Chelsea 1a 336 Births Mar 1888 DAVIES Robert Henry Chelsea 1a 363 Births Jun 1888 DAVIES Robert David Holborn 1b 718 Births Mar 1889 Davies Robert George D Hendon 3a 225 Davies Robert Henry Mile End 1c 531 Births Jun 1882 Davies Frances Elizabeth Poplar 1c 639 Births Mar 1884 DAVIES Frances Mary Hampstead 1a 691 Births Jun 1884 Davies Frances Mary Pancras 1b 7 Births Dec 1886 Davies Frances Ada M Kensington 1a 130 Births Dec 1887 Davies Frances Winifred Marylebone 1a 544 Births Jun 1888 DAVIES Frances Antoinette T Chelsea 1a 332 Births Mar 1889 Davies Frances Mary Hackney 1b 518 Births Dec 1890 Davies Frances Margaret M Edmonton 3a 293 I've found that a pattern emerged with mine, good luck!

Cole Hi Julie, Thank you for looking for me. Afraid I don't have any further details at the moment, will try checking BMD and see if I can give you any further information. Thank you for your time. Best wishes Jean

A really useful place to find where the registration districts is is the freeBMD rootsweb site. It's very good. This is how it defines Brentford: Brentford Created 1st July 1837. Sub-districts : Acton; Brentford; Chiswick; Hanwell; Isleworth; Twickenham. GRO volumes : III (1837-51); 3a (1852-1930). Acton, Chiswick, Ealing, Great Greenford, Hanwell, Heston, Isleworth, New Brentford, Old Brentford, Perivale, Twickenham, Twyford Abbey (from 1862). Registers now divided between Hounslow, Ealing and Richmond upon Thames districts. The dates are the dates that the birth was registered. They don't give the first names of parents although the later ones give the maiden name of the mother which is really useful for identifying the right certificate to send for. Pain really, that's the bit where it starts to get expensive. I've not found a way round that yet - although parish registers are said to record the same information I havn't found a way to do that on line - yet! Hang on and I will add the other entries around these dates for you....

If they are correct -only 7 months between them ! Rosalyn

Julie, thanks -does it give parents . They are Hannah and Charles.Is BRENTFORD near Kensington or Ealing-do you know? Rosalyn

Rosalyn, Births Sep 1883 DAVIS Robert Brentford 3a 85 DAVIS Robert Paul St. Giles 1b 605 Births March 1884 DAVIS Frances Mary Brentford 3a 75 Have you tried these? Does Brentford sound the right area?

Jean - Coles - having difficulty with this.... still in 1861- do you know when Mary Ann died? The only Emma that I've been able to find so far with a father John = 1861 - Wainfleet St Mary, Fen John Cole 47 widow ag lab born Wrangle Lincs Ann Needham, 30 unmarried, housekeeper, Wrangle Lincs Samuel Cole, 16, son, labourer, East Ville Margaret Cole, 10 dau, Wainfleet St Mary Emma Cole, 8 dau, ' ' Maria Cole, 7 dau, ' ' Elizabeth Needham, 6, born Boston Lincs Not sure if this is any help? Any information from later in there lives that I could identify them in later census? Anything about John? Very frustrating - any more information that might help?

Julie that's fine I'm not going mad then thanks for the help Zoe

Zoe - I have them clear as anything on the 1851 - father William, hand loom weaver - silk 31 wife Emma, silk winder - 27 William, born Coventry and his brother Joseph, born c1849 America. Holy Trinity parish - Coventry Having difficulty locating any of them on the 1861 though. No, can't see any of the 4. That any help?

Re;Cole - Gosberton, Lincs. Thanks for your reply Julie. I think perhaps it could be Spalding, as place of birth, but the christening is registered at Gosberton. Hope this might help. The parents are John & Mary Ann Cole. Jean