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In 1881, in Hornsey I have' Louise Elms (widow, 45) Minnie Elms(20) Louise Elms(19) Florence Elms (17) Henry Elms(7) Could someone find a husband in either 71 or 61 so I can go looking for a marriage, please Thanks Peter

1871 Florence Elms abt 1864 Kentish Town, Middlesex, England Daughter Woodford Essex George H Elms abt 1838 Bloomsbury, Middlesex, England Head Woodford Essex Louisa S Elms abt 1836 Bloomsbury, Middlesex, England Wife Woodford Essex Louise Elms abt 1862 Kentish Town, Middlesex, England Daughter Woodford Essex Minnie Elms abt 1861 Kingston, Surrey, England Daughter Woodford Essex Mary Varney abt 1834 Haddenham, Buckinghamshire, England Servant Woodford Essex 1861 George H Elms abt 1838 Lincoln's Inn, Middlesex, England Head Kingston Surrey Louisa S Elms abt 1835 Bloomsbury, Middlesex, England Wife Kingston Surrey Minnie Elms abt 1860 Kingston, Surrey, England Daughter Kingston Surrey Charlotte S Palmer abt 1844 Kingston, Surrey, England Servant Kingston Surrey

Could be death of George England and Wales, Civil Registration Index: 1837-1983 Record about George Henry ELMS Name: ELMS, George Henry Record Type: Deaths Age at death: 42 Quarter: September Year: 1879 District: Edmonton County: Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex Volume: 3a Page: 101 (click to see others on page) Jim

Thanks - that fits Unfortunately can't find a marriage for George/Louisa and I can't find a marriage for Minnie, although I know she married Richard Bradley . She died Chelsea 1899 All helps though!! Peter

this could be a possible marriage for Minnie - only 1 mans name transcribed so her husband could be the untranscribed one ! Elms, Minnie 1885 September Marriages Edmonton Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex FORD, Herbert Walter 1885 September Marriages Edmonton Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex HYLES, Alice Martha 1885 September Marriages Edmonton Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex Name: Elms, Minnie Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1885 District: Edmonton County: Essex Hertfordshire Middlesex Volume: 3a Page: 361 (click

Could be, especially since I can't find birth for Charles b c 1882 and Minnie Ethel Florence b Apr 1883 - looks like a late marriage!! Beginning to wonder if this family didn't believe in filling out forms! Peter Peter

have to turn the light off and go to sleep! Thanks again

I have checked 1837online.......two Richard Bradleys married in JAS 1885......neither in Edmonton district. Reg

George in 1851 Catherine J M Elms abt 1831 Middlesex, England Daughter Lincolns Inn Middlesex View Record Clara Elizabeth Elms abt 1845 Middlesex, England Daughter Lincolns Inn Middlesex View Record George Henry Elms abt 1838 Middlesex, England Son Lincolns Inn Middlesex View Record John William Elms abt 1807 Head Lincolns Inn Middlesex Reg

I've looked on 1837 at marriages for 1881 and 1882.......no Minnie Elms. Reg

More on Minnie-- Looks like she did marry Herbert Ford 1891 census IN HORNSEY - 3 Malvern Road Herbert W Ford 28 born Shoreditch Commercial Traveller Woolen Trade Minnie Ford 30 born Kingston Gladys L Ford 5 born Bowes Park Stanley E Ford 3 born Bowes Park Dorothy M Ford 8 months born Hornsey (Bowes Park is about 2 miles from Hornsey) Death? December 1895 Ford Minnie 35 Edmonton 3a 150 Can't spot rest of them in 1901. This is Herbert in 1881 View Record Anny B. Ford abt 1864 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Daughter 6 Hornsey Park Road, Hornsey, Middlesex, England ++ View Record Herbert Walter Ford abt 1863 Shoreditch, Middlesex, England Son 6 Hornsey Park Road, Hornsey, Middlesex, England View Record Jane Elizth. Ford abt 1832 St Luke, Middlesex, England Widow (Head) 6 Hornsey Park Road, Hornsey, Middlesex, England View Record Joseph James Ford abt 1856 Stoke Newington, Middlesex, England Son 6 Hornsey Park Road, Hornsey, Middlesex, England View Record Henry Percy Oborne abt 1853 Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England Nephew 6 Hornsey Park Road, Hornsey, Middlesex, England Jim

OK - do I have the wrong Minnie. From BMD deaths 1899 Minnie Matilda L Bradley 42 Died. From family records Richard Joseph Bradley m Minnie Matilda Louise Elms (no date) 1st child Charles b c 1882 Second child Minnie b April 1883 Others followed! Another source names her as Minnie ELMER(this came to light yesterday) - can't find a matching birth Don't know who is right and am now totally confused..... Peter

Peter Can you say where the children (Charles and Minnie) were born. They need to be found on a census to give a firm point of reference. Reg

The Minnie who died in 1899 was 42 - born 1856/7. Minnie Elms was born 1860/1. Must be some doubt as to these being the same person. Reg

Is this the family in 1891?? Son Richard Charles? Bradley, Gladys R C abt 1889 Chelsea, London, England Daughter Chelsea London Bradley, Leslie G abt 1886 Chelsea, London, England Son Chelsea London Bradley, Lilian C W abt 1884 Chelsea, London, England Daughter Chelsea London Bradley, Minnie F E abt 1879 Chelsea, London, England Daughter Chelsea London Bradley, Minnie M L abt 1858 Chelsea, London, England Wife Chelsea London Bradley, Richard C M abt 1882 Chelsea, London, England Son Chelsea London Bradley, Richard J abt 1857 London, England Head Chelsea London Bradley, Vivian C abt 1887 Chelsea, London, England Son Chelsea London 1881 using second name Matilda? Matilda L. Bradley abt 1858 London City Of, London, Middlesex, England Wife 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England Minnie F. L. Bradley abt 1878 Westminster Daughter 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England Richard J. Bradley abt 1857 London City Of, London, Middlesex, England Head 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England Louisa Cole abt 1866 Middlesex, England Unknown 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England Mary A. Elmes abt 1832 London City Of, London, Middlesex, England Sister in Law 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England

If the above is the correct family, and it certainly looks it, I can't see that Minnie is the one in the earlier censuses whose birthplace was given in both as Kingston, Surrey. It is a long way from Chelsea, even now! Reg

Based on FC's brilliant detective work.......this cert will give you some answers Name: Bradley, Lilian Clara W Record Type: Births Quarter: March Year: 1884 District: Chelsea (1841-1981) County: Greater London London Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 339 Reg

Bingo!!!!!!!! Name: Elmes, Minnie Matilda L Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1877 District: St George Hanover Square County: London Surrey Volume: 1a Page: 699 Bradley, Ralph Joseph Reg

WELL DONE Reggie!!!! Hopefully that marriage certificate will say her father is John and this is her also going by Matilda in 1861? Agnes Elmes abt 1851 Brompton, Middlesex, England Daughter Chelsea Middlesex Alfred Elmes abt 1847 Brompton, Middlesex, England Son Chelsea Middlesex Charles Elmes abt 1854 Brompton, Middlesex, England Son Chelsea Middlesex John H Elmes abt 1806 London, Middlesex, England Head Chelsea Middlesex ..............>Matilda Elmes abt 1856 Brompton, Middlesex, England Daughter Chelsea Middlesex Samuel Elmes abt 1858 Chelsea, Middlesex, England Son Chelsea Middlesex Sarah Elmes abt 1829 N Wife Chelsea Middlesex Jane Jagger abt 1834 N Daughter Chelsea Middlesex

I'm gobsmacked!! All I can do is gaze at my screen in awe of the power of the internet and the ability of the people on this site. The marriage reference to Ralph has to be an error of some kind- he is without doubt Richard...if someone could add an occupation here and there to the list it would be appreciated. Amazing how I had Elms, someone else had Elmer and it turns out to be a combination of the two as Elmes. Why can't I think like that?? Thanks again - I'll ask for a search on Gustav Adolph Krafft in a future request(laughs) - that is my biggest brick wall!!!!!) Peter