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A thought - or perhaps a line of investigation.... Mother died 1899 Daughters living at home One son moved away to West ham Eldest son seems to have changed name to mother's maiden name Father in prison has Leslie changed his name too? Peter

Hi Suzanne The family lived in the Sidcup/Bexley area, so I presume they stayed in the London Area Peter

Peter Did you grand Uncle Leslie marry in the London area do you know or had he moved elsewhere? Suzanne

Guess you have the birth and 1891. Can't see him in 1901 yet. Jim

Thanks again - wonder what he did?? It was certainly never mentioned in the family!! Only Leslie Gilson Bradley to find now - certainly alive he is my Grand uncle and will marry in 1915, and die in 1947 Peter

Vivian is down on Ancestry 1901 as Bradley .Vivian hes a servant Pawnbrokers Warehouse boy at 30 Church Street,Plaistow,West Ham Anna :-)

Im afraid poor old Richard is in Holloway prison! Richard Bradley abt 1857 Chelsea, London, England Prisoner Islington London Suzanne

Great - I have her as Minnie Ethel Florence, b abt april 1883 (cant find birth). Now - can anyone find Leslie Gilson Bradley in 1901.? B 1886.... A have the girls now, Vivian Claude is a pawnbrokers warehouse boy in W Ham - wonder who he is with??? ..and father Richard, who should be 44/45 b Stepney..... :-)) Peter

I sure don't understand this family!! 1881 Minnie FL b 1878 Westminster 1891 Minnie FE b 1879 Chelsea 1901 Ethel JM b 1879 Chelsea I can understan the E from 1891 becoming Ethel, but where does the JM arise???? Could someone please look at the original and check the transcription for me? Peter

Looks like the children in 1901. Minnie going by Ethel and Richard Charles seems to be going by Elmes?? Cyrel F Bradley abt 1894 Chelsea, London, England Brother Chelsea London Ethel J M Bradley abt 1879 Chelsea, London, England Head Chelsea London Gladys R C Bradley abt 1889 Chelsea, London, England Sister Chelsea London Meriel M D Bradley abt 1895 Chelsea, London, England Sister Chelsea London Sehair C W Bradley abt 1882 Chelsea, London, England Sister Chelsea London Cissy Elmes abt 1871 Scotland Visitor Chelsea London Elsie M Elmes abt 1894 Battersea, London, England Visitor Chelsea London Richard C Elmes abt 1882 Chelsea, London, England Brother Chelsea London

Hi Peter, in 1891 the address is 2 Margaretta Terrace and Richards occ is a House Furnisher. 1881 address and occ the same as 1891.

I'm gobsmacked!! All I can do is gaze at my screen in awe of the power of the internet and the ability of the people on this site. The marriage reference to Ralph has to be an error of some kind- he is without doubt Richard...if someone could add an occupation here and there to the list it would be appreciated. Amazing how I had Elms, someone else had Elmer and it turns out to be a combination of the two as Elmes. Why can't I think like that?? Thanks again - I'll ask for a search on Gustav Adolph Krafft in a future request(laughs) - that is my biggest brick wall!!!!!) Peter

WELL DONE Reggie!!!! Hopefully that marriage certificate will say her father is John and this is her also going by Matilda in 1861? Agnes Elmes abt 1851 Brompton, Middlesex, England Daughter Chelsea Middlesex Alfred Elmes abt 1847 Brompton, Middlesex, England Son Chelsea Middlesex Charles Elmes abt 1854 Brompton, Middlesex, England Son Chelsea Middlesex John H Elmes abt 1806 London, Middlesex, England Head Chelsea Middlesex ..............>Matilda Elmes abt 1856 Brompton, Middlesex, England Daughter Chelsea Middlesex Samuel Elmes abt 1858 Chelsea, Middlesex, England Son Chelsea Middlesex Sarah Elmes abt 1829 N Wife Chelsea Middlesex Jane Jagger abt 1834 N Daughter Chelsea Middlesex

Bingo!!!!!!!! Name: Elmes, Minnie Matilda L Record Type: Marriages Quarter: September Year: 1877 District: St George Hanover Square County: London Surrey Volume: 1a Page: 699 Bradley, Ralph Joseph Reg

Based on FC's brilliant detective work.......this cert will give you some answers Name: Bradley, Lilian Clara W Record Type: Births Quarter: March Year: 1884 District: Chelsea (1841-1981) County: Greater London London Middlesex Volume: 1a Page: 339 Reg

If the above is the correct family, and it certainly looks it, I can't see that Minnie is the one in the earlier censuses whose birthplace was given in both as Kingston, Surrey. It is a long way from Chelsea, even now! Reg

Is this the family in 1891?? Son Richard Charles? Bradley, Gladys R C abt 1889 Chelsea, London, England Daughter Chelsea London Bradley, Leslie G abt 1886 Chelsea, London, England Son Chelsea London Bradley, Lilian C W abt 1884 Chelsea, London, England Daughter Chelsea London Bradley, Minnie F E abt 1879 Chelsea, London, England Daughter Chelsea London Bradley, Minnie M L abt 1858 Chelsea, London, England Wife Chelsea London Bradley, Richard C M abt 1882 Chelsea, London, England Son Chelsea London Bradley, Richard J abt 1857 London, England Head Chelsea London Bradley, Vivian C abt 1887 Chelsea, London, England Son Chelsea London 1881 using second name Matilda? Matilda L. Bradley abt 1858 London City Of, London, Middlesex, England Wife 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England Minnie F. L. Bradley abt 1878 Westminster Daughter 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England Richard J. Bradley abt 1857 London City Of, London, Middlesex, England Head 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England Louisa Cole abt 1866 Middlesex, England Unknown 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England Mary A. Elmes abt 1832 London City Of, London, Middlesex, England Sister in Law 2 Margaretia Terrace, St Lakes, London, England

The Minnie who died in 1899 was 42 - born 1856/7. Minnie Elms was born 1860/1. Must be some doubt as to these being the same person. Reg

Peter Can you say where the children (Charles and Minnie) were born. They need to be found on a census to give a firm point of reference. Reg

OK - do I have the wrong Minnie. From BMD deaths 1899 Minnie Matilda L Bradley 42 Died. From family records Richard Joseph Bradley m Minnie Matilda Louise Elms (no date) 1st child Charles b c 1882 Second child Minnie b April 1883 Others followed! Another source names her as Minnie ELMER(this came to light yesterday) - can't find a matching birth Don't know who is right and am now totally confused..... Peter