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Thanks so much.

I will go ahead and get the death certificate, as you say, it might give me at least something to go on.

Does anyone manage to research their tree without any complications?

John Robert Matthews is on my husband's side of the tree, on my own side I was stuck for months unable to find a birth record for my great grandfather. It turned out that he was born under a different surname to that which has carried on throughout the family!

I wondered if Caroline could have married or remarried after John was born, and that they are shown on the census's under her new husband's surname, but on the army records, she is still shown as Caroline Matthews. Aarrrgggg, it's driving me mad!

Joanne.

Thanks Heather.

Yes, I did think that too. I've wondered if he could be on the census as something like Baker being a confectioner, but that doesn't bring up any results for me either.

Joanne.

Does anyone know if I can look up a particular street name on the 1891 and 1901 census (like you can on the 1881 census)?

John Robert Matthews mother is shown as living at 9 Hull Street on his service records in 1898, however, I have just found that the street is in fact Hulls Street. It is in the same district (St. Lukes) as John was born, so it doesn't look at though Caroline moved far.

Joanne.

Hi

Just a theory - and lots to tell against it, but there is a couple of Caroline Spillers living in the same area (St Lukes) in 1871. They are mother and daughter. The daughter is only 8 then, but would have been 15 or 16 and a possible mother to John Robert by the time of his birth.

In 1881 she is still at home with her parents, age 18, and no sign of any infant son.

However, if she was his mother, it is possible that he could have been brought up by the older Caroline?

Against this - where is John in 1881? The older Caroline is still too young (shown as born in 1840).

Any other thoughts as to for and against this possibility?

Hi Joanne,

Previous entry crossed with yours.

1901 census ought to be possible from the National Archives site - they do have an address search.

- now tried it - seems to be Hull St St Lukes Finsbury on the 1901 - addresses for numbers 12 to 20 - but you need vouchers to check the details.


Family Records Centre, I believe, have London street indexes for earlier censuses - not sure whether they were also compiled for 1891 or 1901.

Hi Joanne

You can do an address search, but it is quite long winded.

On your home page, click on the census you want to search. When the search box comes up, scroll down and you will see a list of counties, click on the one you want (be careful with London, it is listed in some census, in others you will need Middlesex).

Then click on the parish ( St Luke) ;then click on the sub-registration district. This brings up a list of the enumeration districts. You will have to click on each View description..... to see which streets are in it. When you find the one you want, click on the district No and then go through the images till you find the one you want.

I did this for 1891 and 1881 but could find nothing that looked relevant

Blimey, long winded!!! You're not kidding!!

I've just had a look on the 1901 census, but the number of the street I want to look at is missing. I thought that she might have left family at the address after she died.

I think I'm going to have to send for the death certificate. There's no way of knowing what, if anything, that will shed light on, but it's worth the chance.

I just want to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread. I really appreciate all the time and effort that you have all put into helping me.

Ivy,
What you have suggested certainly seems possible. I've had stranger things thrown up on my tree before now.

If anyone still wants to have a search for me, all the details are on the first message, you never know, another pair of eyes and all that.......

Joanne.

Hi Everyone,

I've now got the death certificate for Caroline Spiller. I'm afraid that this isn't John's mother. The date of death is shown as13/01/1899 whereas on John's army records it is shown as 31/01/1899.

I have come up with another possible death for Caroline Matthews. There is one listed J/F/M 1899 in Cuckfield, which is near Haywards Heath. Her year of birth is c1849. I have checked on the 1891 census and there are some Matthews living in Cuckfield, but not a Caroline, so perhaps she went to stay with relatives there before dying, This looks like a good possibility. What do you think?

Joanne.

Hi Joanne,

I'm sorry the death certificate didn't match up.

I'd be cautious about the Cuckfield one. There is a Caroline born 1849 living at Cowfold on the 1891 census, which is in the Cuckfield registration district.

Are there any other possibles?

Hi Joanne

Are you sure the Kensington death isn't the right one? 13/31 could have been transposed somewhere along the way.

Does it say whether she was married, widowed, single ? And who registered the death? Where did she die? Let's try to find her earlier even if just to rule her out.

Sorry I've been so long answering, I've just got back off holiday.

Ivy, no, I can't find any other possibilities at all.

Potty, the death certificate shows Caroline Spiller died 13/01/1899 in Kensington Infirmary. 68 years. Occupation shows as:- From 16 St. Katherines Road widow of Henry Spiller general labourer. Cause of death cancer of womb. Informant was Jane Gray, daughter, 39 Princes Road. Registered 16/01/1899.

I don't think that this is the Caroline I am looking for. Although it shows that she had been married to Henry Spiller and on John Robert Matthews birth certificate it gives his father's name as Henry, he is shown as Henry Matthews not Spiller, and Caroline is shown as Matthews formerly Spillers.

I don't know where to go from here now.

Joanne.

Hi Joanne

Hope you had a good holiday.

This gets even worse - the only Henry & Caroline Spiller I can find is the one below
Neither can I find a marriage for a Jane Spiller to anyone called Gray! Have searched from 1845 to 1889.
1881 England Census
about Henry Spiller
Name: Henry Spiller
Age: 60
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Caroline - born Bath
Gender: Male
Where born: London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St James Clerkenwell
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 75 Southampton St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Dealer In Building Materials

Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: Pentonville
ED, institution, or vessel: 6a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Caroline Spiller 59
Henry Spiller 60

I would give it a rest for a while and come back to it in a few weeks. I searched for ages for my grandfather on one census. Eventually found him mistranscribed - Voslans instead of Postans!

Thanks Potty.

Yes, I think I do need to concentrate on a different line for now, this one is driving me mad.

I can't find any further leads at all so I might have another look in a couple of weeks and then if nothing else comes to light I will send for the Cuckfield death certificate and see if that sheds any light on anything.

Joanne.