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Kay

Thanks for the emails. I will not be able to print the attachments until I get to work on Monday.

Have a good weekend, thanks for all you have done for me.

Nx

Kay

Thanks yet again! Very much appreciated.

I have pm'd you.

I will do all you have suggested and will let you know how I get on.

Thanks again

Nicki

Hi Nicki


The plot thickens - it is possible that the marriage that Jill found was the first or second marraige for John Hill.

I would start by ordering Julia's birth cert for 1850. It is a distinctive name, ties in with the IGI birth that Jill found and was the only birth of a Julia around the time and area.

That should give you at least her mother's maiden name. I am still amazed that there is such a gap between Juila and the next child. Then you should be able to sort out the marraiges and only if essential send for William's.

Tonight I will check the address for Lydia and Edward in 1901 and can send you the all the census images if you pm me you email address

Re John Hill's death - the family seem to spilt by 1881 with Julia (listed as married) at home with two children and Lydia at school with a brother. I couldn't find John and wonder whether he had already died. Have you found him on any census's post 1871?

There is a death on FreeBMD for Dec 1871 St Savoiur 1d 83 for a John Hill aged 41 which would tie in with his age. However he hasn't got an unusual name and could have died elsewhere. It would also have been before Lydia was born so I would think the birth cert would have mentioned it

Kx

Thanks, Jill, I was only kidding.

None of this is as straightforward as I thought it would be when I started all of this in February.

I am glad I have been able to trace William up until his death though and filled in lots of info for my dad and his family who are all over 70. What I would love to do is to track down Walter Baxter O'Connell, but Scottish records are even harder to track down. I have his birth certificate and his parents marriage certificate.

Thanks again

Nicki

Sorry Nicki - did not mean to confuse you! I think if you go for one of the earlier children's birth certs you should get the confirmation you need. It's possible that the marriage I found is them and the vicar misheard Campbell for Gamble!

Jill

Jill

Thanks for that. I now have got less of a clue than I had before!!

Nicki

Kay

Thanks.

I have the marriage cert of Edward Wallis to Lydia Hill on Nov 13th 1892, it gives the father's name as John Hill (deceased) and his profession as General Dealer, so I assume that equates to hawker? Any chance of locating his death?

Which child's birth certificate should I order?

The 1901 census is where I have been working back from. What address is that?

I am trying to find the family tree of William Wallis born October 1909. The family lived at 56 Sussex Street at that stage. I know he had a brother called Edward. What I am trying to do is link this to living descendents. It is a long story, but William Wallis was my grandfather, he left my Nan with four very young children in 1937. He deserted from the Army, then rejoined the Army in Scotland, using a different name (O'Connell) and date of birth!! He married Catherine Wilson Smith Baxter in 1938 and they had a son Walter Baxter O'Connell in June 1939.

In 1954, William changed his name back to Wallis at Bow Street Magistrates Court, his brother Edward and nephew Edward were witnesses.

William eventually died at the Royal Hospital Chelsea as a Chelsea In-Pensioner in 1981.

Thanks again Kay

Nicki
xx

Young Julia is on IGI - can't see any siblings though - or a marriage for dad.

Julia Hill - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 08 DEC 1849
2. Julia Hill - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Christening: 27 FEB 1850 St George The Martyr, Southwark, Surrey, England

Is this a possible marriage? Maybe, if she was illiterate, the registrar misheard Campbell and put Gamble? As she was born in Bethnal Green it's likely that they married there.

Marriages Mar 1852 (>99%)
Campell Julia Bethnal Green 1c 616
Downes Margaret Bethnal Green 1c 616
Hall Charles Bethnal Green 1c 616
Hill John Bethnal Green 1c 616

Nicki

I am sure you haven't got the wrong marriage, presumably the below is the family in 1901, which ties in with lydia in earlier census's The marriage on FreeBMD in 1892 is the only one for an Edward Wallis and Lydia of the right time frame and it was in St Savoiurs - the right District.

If you have the marraige certifcate and it gives her fathers name as John Hill occupation hawker or similar then I think the family is correct in earlier census. The family I think were living at the same address as given in the birth cert you have for Lydia then they are the right family

The only apparent problem is the Maiden Name of Julia. It could well be there is another marraige for a John Hill and Julia which I missed or the maiden name was incorrectly given

I think the only way forward would be to check another child's birth cert

Good Luck and do tell me how you get on

Kxx


1901

Name: Lydia Wallis
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Edward
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth, London, England

Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: Emmanuel
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Lambeth Church Second
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 378
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Wallis 29
Edward Wallis 6
Elizabeth Wallis 1
Henry Wallis 5
Lydia Wallis 29
Lydia Wallis 3

Kay

Thanks yet again.

Will do, the only reason I did not order that one was due to the middle name as on the marriage certificate I have there is no mention of a middle name. Oh No - what if I have the wrong marriage certificate of Lydia Hill to Edward Wallis, this is getting far too complicated!!

Nicki

Nicki

It looks like there are two possible births for 1872, but the father's occupation ties in with John Hill's being a hawker! Could you check another child's birth

Kay

Surname Given Name District Volume Page

Births Jun 1872
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

HILL Lydia St. Saviour 1d 66


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Births Dec 1872 (>99%)

Hill Lydia Rebeckah St. Saviour 1d 136



Possible William

Births Mar 1859 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HILL William St George S 1d 144

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K

Thanks for your help.

My problem now is have I got the wrong birth certificate for Lydia Hill!!

Beats me.

Nicki

N

The 1841 record is the only one I could find with both siblings. In 1841 the ages were often rounded up or down to the nearest 5 years. In 1861 his year of birth was given as 1826

Good Luck K

I will recheck tonight - but it does tie in with his sister's name and age

K

K

I wonder if the 1841 is the right Hill family. I say this because on the 1841 his dob is about 1826 yet on the 1851 it is about 1830?

N

I wonder whether with the gap between their children Julia and William whether their were two marriages. It could be worth checking their first child's birth in 1850 below. Although it does seem unlikely he would marry another Julia. I also attach John with sister and mother in 1841

Good Luck Kay

1841

Name: John Hill
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Male
Where born: Surrey, England

Civil Parish: St George The Martyr
Hundred: Southwark
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England

Street address:3 Rodney St

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: St George Southwark
Sub-registration district: Borough Road
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Hill 45 Needlewoman
Frances Hill 11
John Hill 15 Plasterer
Mary Hill 13
William Hill 15 Plasterer


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Births Mar 1850 (>99%)


Hill Julia St Geo Southk 4 472



John's sister's birth


FRANCES HILL Pedigree
Female

Event(s):
Birth:
Christening: 01 DEC 1830 Kingston Upon Thames, Surrey, England
Parents:
Father: JAMES HILL Family
Mother: ANNE

K

Only got Gamble from Lydia's birth certificate, perhaps I have the wrong certificate?

Have got to go out now, but will return to this once I get back.

Nicki

Shirley

Thanks for info about Ruler.

K,

Thanks for clarification on address for 1861 census.

Nicki