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This is the earliest sighting I have of Thomas Herbert Smith:


1861 England Census
about Thomas Smith
Name: Thomas Smith
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Leamington, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Bedworth
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Registration district: Foleshill
Sub-registration district: Foleshill
ED, institution, or vessel: 18
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 202
Household Members: Name Age
Mary Smith 26
Thomas Smith 24
Thomas Smith 1




Deb:)

That's what's driving me absolutely nuts!!!!!

I'll keep looking for his marriage. it has to be somewhere.

Thanks for all your help. Now I can order the death cert for Thomas junior and add his death date.


Deb:)

You're very welcome!!!


sylvia


ps .... couldn'tresist seeing if I could thomas Herbert Smith, but he's certainly not there as Thomas H
erbert or Thomas H is he?



sylvia

Oh, Sylvia. I think you've hit GOLD!!!!!!!

Thank you so much for that.


Deb:)

I'm off to bed now (it's nearly 11:30pm my time), but I'll check back to see what you think!


sylvia

Deb,

I went to freebmd

Put in Thomas Smith, registration District Tamworth, September quarter 1881 to December quarter 1887 (ie more than 9 months before Flora's birth and months after his widow married), and this is the ONLY record that came up:-


Deaths Dec 1884 (>99%)

Smith Thomas 24 Tamworth 6b 272


Looks intriguing at the very least!



sylvia

Posting for reference:

1881 England Census
about Mary E. Smith
Name: Mary E. Smith
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Warton, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Tamworth
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address: 12 (Kirkeowen Ter)
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:
Occupation: Dressmaker

Registration district: Tamworth
Sub-registration district: Tamworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Mary E. Smith 23




1881 England Census
about Thomas Smith
Name: Thomas Smith
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas Herbert
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Bedworth, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Tamworth
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address: Court 5 House 1 Church Street
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status:
Occupation: (Carpenter & Joiner)

Registration district: Tamworth
Sub-registration district: Tamworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age

Herbert Smith 3
John Smith 8
Lizzie Smith 10
Mary Smith 46
Mary Ann Smith 18
Thomas Smith 22
Thomas Herbert Smith 44




Deb:)

Yes lindsay. I have that one. it says that she was a widow. But it doesn't give her maiden name Wright, which I thought it would have.

I do know it's her though because she appears as a witness at her daughters wedding in 1903 as Mrs Mary Unsworth.


Deb:)


Have to pop out for a bit and pick up daughter from school but will check back soon.

Found this marriage
SMITH Mary Elizabeth Aston.6d 391 2 1887
UNSWORTH Henry Aston.6d 391 2 1887

I have the marriage cert of Flora's parents and I have them both on the 1881 census, so I know they were married and you're right, he probably did die.........but when!

The number of deaths for Thomas between 1881 and 1891 is scary...........lol

And I can't find hide nor hair of thomas Herbert Smith before 1861..................argh!!!!!


deb:)

He's quite likely dead .................. and they just forgot to tell the vicar that little piece of information!!!



at least, she did have a father called Thomas!!!


A favourite ploy for an illegitimate child was to make up the name of a father and add deceased. Then we go off on wild goose changes trying to find child with a father who never existed!



sylvia

I've been going around in circles for hours on end trying to sort out my Smiths!

Working backwards from my G/grandmother.

Flora Williams nee Smith b 25-7-1882, Tamworth Staffs.

On her birth cert her parents are Thomas Smith occ Joiner and Mary Elizabeth Wright.

On her marriage cert, father Thomas Smith occ Carpenter not deceased.

On Thomas and Mary Elizabeth's marriage cert, Thomas' father is Thomas Herbert Smith occ Joiner not deceased.


All is well in the 1881 census with Mary at home alone in Tamworth and Thomas just up the road visiting his parents.


It gets confusing from here on in though.

In 1891, Mary Elizabeth is living with her new husband Henry Unsworth and daughter flora in Birmingham. From their marriage cert, Mary Elizabeth was a widow. Yet on her daughter's marriage cert, Thomas isn't deceased.

I haven't been able to find Thomas in later census records and there are so many death refs, I don't know where to start.

Also, I can't find a likely marriage for Thomas Herbert Smith, nor can I find him before 1861.

I'm going insane......................help please!!!!!



Deb:)