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Hi
I've got a Samuel Bebb born 1825 in Leominster who i believe may have actually been born Samuel Dubberly or Duberley.

I can find a 1825 baptism record for Samuel which has His mother as Ann Duberley and father as Richard Lilwall.

I'm thinking Samuel was born out of wedlock, to Richard Lilwall and then Ann went on to marry William Bebb c.1805 (from Leominster) I can see they were married in 1830.

Ann is married to William Bebb on the 1851 census with other children John & Thomas - i believe Sameul is married by 1851 to Fanny Smith.

How do i find out for sure if Samuel was born out of wedlock - I'm stuck and not knowing is driving me potty!! Can anyone help with any of your whizzo look ups you can do?

If needs be and i have to look at Leominster Parish records where on this site can i get info on how to go about it, where to go, what info i will need to take with me etc?

Thanks everyone :o)

Hi Nessa,
I'll try to get to the Herefordshire Record Office tomorrow afternoon and see what I can find out for you . Am no expert but will do my best.
Regards Susan

Thanks for those Stargazer - i'll check them out.
Kind regards Vanessa

Hi Susan
Thanks for your offer of trying to get to the records office for me -thats so kind of you. Ooooo...getting quite excited now in anticipation of what you might be able to find out!!! I've noticed actually that there seem to be quite a few Duberley's or Dubberlys - whatever they are - in and around the area. I kind of hope that my Samuel is a Duberley,rather than a Bebb as my grandad will be gutted.
Hope to hear from you soon.
kind regards
Vanessa

Hi Nessa,
Just got back from the Record Office. You were right. The entry in the Parish Register says " Samuel the illegitimate son of Richard Lilwall and Ann Duberly" In 1841 he is Samuel Duberly ag lab living in Ivington. He marries as Duberly. I can't find him in 1851 and then in 1861 he is Samuel Bebb. It doesn't make sense. If there's anything else I can help with just send me a pm .
Best Wishes Susan.

I think this is him in 1851:
Mill St., Leominster, Herefordshire
Samuel Doubley, head, 24, miller's labourer, born Leominster
Frances, wife, 21, born Kinbolton, Hereford
Elizabeth, dau, 5 (weeks or months?), born Leominster

Susan - thanks so much for that information - i'd love to have seen those words written down for myself.... i must make a trip there at some point. I need to find out more about the Duberly's now then, seeing as my mother's family aren't really Bebbs but Duberlys! My Grandad will never believe me and he has romanticised the Bebbs so much!! Don't think i dare tell him!! :o)
Samuel must have taken on his mother's married name later in life for whatever reason, i suppose we'll never know.
Once again thanks soooooo much!

Margaret - I think thats him in 1951. I know he married a "Fanny Smith" and i've only just realised that Fanny is a nickname for Francis!

Another thing....i always imagined that back then they would have been forced to get married if they'd got pregnant out of wedlock. Obviously not!!

Oh and actually....i suppose we're not really Duberly's we're Lilwalls....because the norm would be to take the father's surname.

Have had a lot of help myself so glad to be of assistance Nessa. Was really pleased for you when I saw it. Got one of the staff to come and check it. He said it was unusual to have a father's name in those circumstances.
Margaret I'm sure you're right about 1851 as Samuel was married in Kimbolton but how did you find it? I have a couple of surnames with at least 12 spelling variations and wondered if there was some easy way of tracking them down. Have lots of can't finds in 1841, 1851
Susan

I found it using the daughter's name. Since she was already 10 at the time of the 61 census I presumed that she was born before the 51. I used her first name , born 1850, Leominster, with parents Samuel and Fanny. Turned out mother was actually Frances but I got lucky!
Margaret

Just wanted to again say thanks for everyones help with this. Its been hard to get it through to my mum about Samuel being illegitimate and therefore not a true "bebb" (thats her maiden name)...she's contsantly going on.. "how do you know?"...."how can you be sure?"...."ah yes...but..." blah blah.... It'll be some time before i can convince her!!
I now need to find out more about Ann Duberly and Richard Lilwall then perhaps i can give my mum a clearer picture but its soooo difficult isn't it when they start changing the spelling of surnames....Dubberly...Doubly....Duberley.... Nightmare! :o)

Hi Nessa,
Just looked at my threads and saw your recent posting. Have been v busy the last few days as elderly father-in-law in hospital ( not serious) but m-in-law in need of support. Use the dining room table 100 piles of paper method of filing but managed to unearth this. Richard Lilwall baptism 4 July 1804 in Eardisland mother Ann (no father named) Richard Lilwall married Elizabeth Tyler 24 April 1825 in Mansell Lacey. Think I might have got this from IGI so it needs checking at the Records Office. Won't be able to do this before next week but will let you know as soon as there's anything new.
Susan

Hi Susan
Just checking my threads and noticed your latest reply. Thanks for this info - i need to find some other people looking for Lilwalls then hopefully i can get some answers. I'm also intrigued as to why Samuell (the illegitimate child from Ann and Richard's 'meeting'...should change his name to BEBB at such a late stage in his life - perhaps the William Bebb that Samuel's mother Ann married was wealthy!! We can hope!! :o) It just seems weird that it takes him soooo long to change his name doesn't it?
By the way hope you had a great Xmas and New Year and your father in law is better!