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If she was a Lady by birth surely she would be in Debretts. She might also have been a debutante and 'come out' i.e. been presented at Court, although I don't expect that went on during the war.

I think if you are a Lady by birth then your children can use the title Hon. (Honorable) I have a friend who is an Hon. as her mother was a Lady, but her father was not a Lord although he was quite 'posh'. I don't think you can be 'un-Ladyied' . Interesting that Heather Mills Mc.C.. is still being referred to as Lady McC. - of course she is not a Lady at all, it is only a courtesy title because he is a 'Sir'. Isn't the British Peerage fascinating..............
Looking forward to seeing more about the Dover Castle picture
Eileen

William H Miller, MMN Johnson is registered Q3 1921, in Dover 2a 2174 and I see what I think is his death registration also, so possibly it was Raymond who went abroad.

Is there a Museum or something at Dover Castle that you could contact and ask for any information on the picture.

Gail.

there is a photo there in a table type glass cabinet, my grandad's sister went there and saw it, and had to write to the queen, to get permission to get a copy, and she was allowed, but she had to pay a royal photographer to take a picture of the photo, pretty unfair i thought, seen as it was her mother, but hey ho, that's the world we live in, and another memory just popped into my head, i remember seeing a telegram to his mother, i believe, saying that 1 of her husbands had past his pilot licence, i believe it's for sailing rather than flying, cant think of any more at mo, but i'm sure i'll remember more while i'm cooking, lol,

Hi Tracey

Well that gives another avenue to research, keep hunting out those scraps of paper as sometimes they hold all the clues...

At the beginning of your thread you said that 'her picture is in the 'Dover Castle' is it a newspaper or did you mean her picture is actually in Dover Castle? just wondered if you had actually seen it.

Gail.x

well thanx again, ur all amazing here, guess i must hit the sack, seen as i gotta b up in bout 3 hr's, lol, this is very addictive, ha ha,and i'm sure i'll be back on here in a few hr's, lol, well nite for now folks, an i really can't thank u enough,
tracey

ok, i just found scrap of paper, with some more info, one of my grandad's brother's emigrated to austrailia, this could have been either;
raymond who married a joyce smith,
or
william herbert miller who married a rose deeks, their date of marriage was 14-06-1944 and william also died in 1997,

thank u, thats my grandad, looks like i'll be spending some money on birth certificates, lol, any info is truly appreciated,
tracey

Here is George's birth

George E Miller
1920
Quarter 1
Volume 2a
Page 2692
Dover

great, thank u both for your help, and will def let u know more, and may even need more assistance, it would be nice to find out if she really was a lady, thanx again, will keep u posted,
tracey

Yes same here, good luck Tracey and would love to know the outcome.

Gail.

I'll wait & see how you get on. Let us know the results of the chats.

Ozi.

yes, i suppose he would of been, and she died young too, i will try an get in touch with my aunts, to see if they have any more info they could give me, and i'll try and find out what home they went to when she died,

So Charles could have been a Cairns then by birth............

yes ages were very fluid, everyone was the same..

Gail.

and i remember someone saying that they sometimes lied about thier ages to get work back then, and i think that was a complete stranger that obviously new more than me, lol,

Hi Tracey

Well she had quite a bad time of it if her first husband died so soon and so young and then if Charles died as well, it must have been very difficult for her.

Gail.

I agree.

Having dificulty finding some of the children. Like Raymond for example.

Ozi.

i remember that there was some discrepances when i looked up eva before, many many many years ago, in london, with those great big books that weighed half a ton, ha ha, but that was prob 20 yrs ago now, but when i spoke to my grandad back then, he didn't really want to talk about it, his generation an all, but i told him i'd found 2 marriages to her and he confirmed she had been married twice, i think it was prob too painful for him to talk about, which is understandable, but i had a chance conversation at one of those big family does we all love, lol, and found out that cairn's was 1 of her names, this is what my grandad's sister eva told me about their mother eva,
tracey

Possible birth registration for Eva...

Eva Elizabeth Johnson
Year of Registration: 1891
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Maidstone
County: Kent
Volume: 2a
Page: 756

Gail

Hi Ozibird

What do you think....the marriages above tie up very nicely..so must be two different people

Gail

Hi Tracey

The gentleman on the commonwealth war grave site died Feb 1915 so If your Charles married end of 1915 then they cannot be the same person.

Just trying to find more information on Eva.

Gail.