Find Ancestors

can any one help im looking for james orton born about 1895 was married to somebody and he also married emily hart when he was still married to the other woman thire marriage was anuled and he then was living with gladys cooper and they had a son peter oswaled orton born i n 1938 but i carnt seem to fined them as i dont know wear james comes from but i do know peter was born in mold wales can any one help me regards jean xxxx

Got my generations mixed up lol.

I know that it is confusing...Im sorry!
I will try to clarify:

I have:
Mr ? Steel born c 1800 who marries
Ann ? c1801. Thereby Ann becomes Ann Steel.

They have a child also called Ann -
Ann Steel c 1826, who marries James Orton c1832. - Thereby she becomes Ann Orton.

They have children: Sarah Orton c1852, Thomas Orton c1856 & Elizabeth Orton
c1850.

Elizabeth A Orton marries John Kilby & thereby becomes Elizabeth A Kilby.

Gill, am I getting mixed up here, are we assuming Elizabeth A Kilby and Ann Steel 1827 are one and the same? If so the ages dont tie in.

Hi Keith

Earlier I said:
"I too was puzzled as to why they married in Ormskirk- but it was the only Elizabeth Ann Orton / John Kilby marriage that I could come up with."

Perhaps, I should not have 'accepted' this marriage, simply because it was the only one that fitted.

Perhaps I should still be looking for a John Kilby to Elizabeth Ann ? marriage around
c1880.............then again..............

we do know that the 1901 census shows- Elizabeth Kilby aged 38 & 5 children
4 lodgers/relatives? - the 'Steeles'
Ecclesiastical parish: Leicester St Saviour
County/Island: Leicestershire
Street address: 7 Real street
Occupation: none
Condition as to marriage: Widow

Elizabeth A Kilby 38
Emma G Kilby 16
Herbert F Kilby 14
Hettie R Kilby 21
Vincent W Kilby 18
Emma Sherwin 37
Ethel L Steele 1
George E Steele 36
Harold Steele 8

So, we MUST have the right marriage of John & Elizabeth in Ormskirk in 1879 ! ?

Does not say what she was in prison for on image, but does say married.
Image says High Cross Street, enumerators description of district does not enlighten either

Think that I have found the 'Steel' connection...........
Marriages Sep 1849
Orton James Leicester 15 163
Steel Ann Leicester 15 163


Just noticed that you have found the connection too.!

Name: Ann Orton
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Prisoner ??????????

Where was she a prisoner???????
Do we know what for????

1841?

Name: Ann Steel
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Female
Where born: Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Barkby
Hundred: East Goscote
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Barrow upon Soar
Sub-registration district: Syston
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
George Hstor 70
Ann Steel 30
Elisabeth Steel 2
Mary Steel 7
Sarah Steel 11
Thomas Steel 9

Ages dont match though.

Also this
Name: Ann Steel
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Gender: Female
Where born: Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Beeby
Hundred: East Goscote
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street address: Beeby

Occupation: Female Servant (F/S)

Registration district: Barrow upon Soar
Sub-registration district: Syston
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Steel 14

Oh dear this looks like her in 1851:-

Name: Ann Orton
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Relation: Prisoner
Gender: Female
Where born: Barkby, Leicestershire, England
Marital condition: Married.
Civil Parish: Leicester All Saints
Town: Leicester
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England
Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: West Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b

Found this, I wonder?

Name: Ann Steel
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Leicester (1837-1974)
County: Leicestershire
Volume: 15
Page: 163
James Orton on page.

Sorry Gillian, thought I had sent you the images, anyway, Ann Steel is head of the household,a widow born Leicester, Elizabeth, Mary and Sarah are her daughters, as is Ann Orton. All the daughters are born Barkby. Ann is the only married daughter.

So unless Ann Steel had re-married or Ann married and then re-married, it looks to me as if the marriage you had found in Ormskirk is incorrect.

Keith - Do we know who the 'Steel' family are??

1861.
Name: Thomas Orton
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Grandson
Mother's Name: Ann
Leicestershire

Ann Orton 34
Sarah Ann Orton 9
Thomas Orton 4
Ann Steel 60
Elizabeth Steel 22
Mary Steel 25
Sarah Steel 31

Gill

Hi Keith

I too was puzzled as to why they married in Ormskirk- but it was the only Elizabeth Ann Orton / John Kilby marriage that I could come up with.

Gillian, there are so many possible Eliza/Elizabeths and Thomas from Seagrave or Leicestershire, you really need the certs to confirm parents etc.
Who was Elizabeths father on her marriage cert?

Hi Gillian, getting the better half on this as well, I wonder why they married in Ormskirk when they were were both born Leicestershire.

Hi Keith
I am really confused now. I am trying to trace the Kilby family history.

So far, in tracing John Kilby, I have:

1881 England Census
about John I. Kilby
Name: John I. Kilby (IMAGE READS JOHN T)
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth A.
Gender: Male
Where born: Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Leicester St Margaret
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street address: 19 Shenton St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Proffessor Of Music

Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: East Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 40
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur C. Kilby ---------- (where is this child ten years later?! )
Elizabeth A. Kilby 23
Hetty K. Kilby 1
John I. Kilby 23

In this year, the Agar family (who Emma, Johns daughter was staying with in 1891) are living two doors up from the Kilby's house, so that confirms that...

1891 census: Elizabeth Kilby
Street address: 25 st. George Street
Occupation:Milliner
Condition as to marriage: Widow
Employment status: neither employer nor employed
Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: East Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 36

Household Members: Name Age
Elizabeth Herns 20
James Herns 22
Elizabeth A Hilby 32
Hellez K Hilby 11 (image reads Hettie R)
Herbert F Hilby 4
Vincent W Hilby 8
Thomas S Orton 35
Emma Sherwin 25
Florence Sherwin 16

( I assumed Thomas was Elizabeths brother)

ref: 1901 census - Elizabeth aged 38 & 5 children
4 lodgers/relatives?
Where born: Lester, Seagrave

Civil Parish: Leicester Formerly St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: Leicester St Saviour
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street address: 7 Real street
Occupation: none
Condition as to marriage: Widow

Elizabeth A Kilby 38
Emma G Kilby 16
Herbert F Kilby 14
Hettie R Kilby 21
Vincent W Kilby 18
Emma Sherwin 37
Ethel L Steele 1
George E Steele 36
Harold Steele 8


I also have:
Elizabeth Ann Orton - Ormskirk - married John in Ormskirk 80 875 8b

Name: Elizabeth Ann Orton --
Year of Registration: 1879
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Ormskirk
County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 875

Death John Thomas Kilby Dec 1888 Aged 30 Leics 7a 99.and here is John's death entry:
Name: John Thomas Kilby
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Year of Registration: 1888
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 30
District: Leicester (1837-1974)
County: Leicestershire
Volume: 7a
Page: 99

Does it make any sense to you??

Elizabeth in 1881.

Name: Elizabeth A. Kilby
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: John I.
Gender: Female
Where born: Seagrave, Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Leicester St Margaret
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street address: 19 Shenton St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Leicester
Sub-registration district: East Leicester
ED, institution, or vessel: 40
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur C. Kilby
Elizabeth A. Kilby 23
Hetty K. Kilby 1
John I. Kilby 23

I think you need to get some certificates to confirm parents names etc, this is a bit of a wild goose chase.

1871?

Name: Elizabeth Ann Orton
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: Seagrave, Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Seagrave
County/Island: Leicestershire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Barrow Upon Soar
Sub-registration district: Barrow Upon Soar
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 28
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur Orton Orton 8
Elizabeth Ann Orton 12
Ellen Kate Orton 15
Fredrick Orton 6
Herbert Orton 2
John Orton 39
John Henry Orton 10
Mary Ann Orton 44
Mary Jane Orton 17
Thomas Orton 4

Thomas appears to be too young if that is them.
Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 3262; Folio: 7; Page: 7

We are looking for Thomas G Orton.

In 1891 Census - St. Margaret, Leicester
He is living with his sister Elizabeth

Elizabeth A. Kilby Head Wid. 32 Milliner, born Seagrave.
Hetty K. Kilby Dau 11 b. Leicester
Vincent W. Kilby Son 8 b. Leicester
Herbert F. Kilby Son 4 b. Leicester
Thomas G. Orton Brother 35 Shoe Laster, born Seagrave + 4 Boarders