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My great great grandfather, Richard Thomas Williams, was born on 30th May 1858 in Ellesmere Shropshire. From his birth certificate I have the names of his parents Humphrey and Sarah Williams (maiden name Thomas). Their address on the birth certificate is recorded as Watergate Street, Ellesmere.
The marriage certificate for Humphrey and Sarah records the date of marriage as 25th December 1857. Humphrey was a widower and Sarah a spinster. Their ages are not given. Humphrey’s father was also named Humphrey Williams and his recorded occupation was a smith. Sarah’s father was named Richard Thomas and his occupation a farrier. The witnesses at the marriage were Thomas and Emma Baker.
In the 1861 census Richard Thomas Williams (aged 3 years) was living with his uncle and aunt, Thomas and Emma Baker (maiden name Price), in the parish of Elson and Greenhill.
In the 1871 census (aged 12) he was recorded living as a servant at Dudleston Hall.
In the 1881 (aged 23) he was living at Dudleston Heath with his uncle and aunt Peter and Martha Barlow (maiden name Thomas).
Both Sarah Williams and Martha Barlow have a father named Richard Thomas so it is possible they are sisters, although I have been unable to prove this. I have been unable to find any trace of Humphrey and Sarah in either the 1851, 1861 or any subsequent census. Also I have not been able to find any connection between either Humphrey or Sarah Williams and Thomas and Emma Baker or Peter and Martha Barlow.
I would also be interested to find out what happened to Humphrey's first wife and if there were any children of this marriage.
If anyone has any information on this family I would be most grateful for any assistance.
Thanks
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Does the marriage certificate give an occupation for Humphrey himself? (I'm reading that as his father being the smith.)
There's this Humphrey in 1851:
Name: Humphrey Williams
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Margaret
Gender: Male
Where born: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England
-- that is not what it says; it says Mongtgomeryshire + something I can't read along the line of Staveway
Civil Parish: Shrewsbury St Mary
Town: Shrewsbury
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Occupation: ?? Cotton and Flaxter??
Registration district: Shrewsbury
Sub-registration district: St Mary
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Household schedule number: 136
John Fipton 64
John Hacking 34
Samuel Peate 17
Ann Reeves 36
Edward Reeves 4
James Reeves 8
William Reeves 14
Henry Smith 34
Frances Williams 3
Henry Williams 9
Humphrey Williams 33
Margaret Williams 35
Margaret Williams 5
John Yaveley 48
And there's this one in 1861 who, apart from the age, looks like the same one:
Name: Humphrey Williams
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Laanguny, Montgomeryshire, Wales
-- it says Montgomery, Montgomeryshire
Civil Parish: St Chad
Ecclesiastical parish: St Chad
Town: Shrewsbury
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Occupation: Tailor
Condition as to marriage: Widower
Registration district: Shrewsbury
Sub-registration district: St Chad
Could he have been twice widowed by 1861?
Daughter Frances from the 1851 household looks to be a servant in 1861.
This would likely be the marriage of that Humphrey and Margaret:
Marriages Jun 1839
ELLIS Hannah Shrewsbury 18 269
EVANS Martha Shrewsbury 18 269
GOUGH Louisa Shrewsbury 18 269
** GRIFFITHS Margaret Shrewsbury 18 269
HUMPHREYS Joseph Shrewsbury 18 269
JAMES John Shrewsbury 18 269
MORGAN Thomas Shrewsbury 18 269
** Williams Humphrey Shrewsbury 18 269
so it might be worth getting the marriage cert to compare father's details.
I wonder whether this might be Humphrey Sr. in 1841 -- born out of county:
Name: Humphrey Williams - Ag Lab
Age: 56
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1785
Gender: Male
Civil Parish: Whittington
Hundred: Oswestry (Upper Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Oswestry
Sub-registration district: St Martins
Elizabeth Williams 45
Humphrey Williams 56
Jane Williams 17
John Williams 20
Thomas Williams 12
There are also Humphreys in Shropshire born 1776 and 1786.
But there's one in Montgomeryshire who fits in 1841:
Name: Humphrey Williams
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Montgomeryshire, Wales
Civil Parish: Llanbrynmair
Hundred: Machynlleth
County/Island: Montgomeryshire
Country: Wales
Registration district: Machynlleth
Sub-registration district: Darowen
Ann Williams 20
Humphrey Williams 25 - no occupation stated
Jane Williams 15
Mary Williams 60 - independent
Mary Williams 20
All of which you may already have investigated!
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And there is a death registered fo a
Sarah Williams in1858 Oct/Nov/ Dec quarter at Ellesmere
Vol 6a Page 515.
Only a copy will prove whether it is your Sarah.
Jenny
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In 1841, this household:
Name: Sarah Thomas
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Female
Where born: Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Ellesmere
Hundred: Pimhill (Ellesmere Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Ellesmere
Eliza Thomas 30
Elizabeth Thomas 50
Emma Thomas 4
Jane Thomas 12
Richard Thomas 40 - Ag Lab
Sarah Thomas 15
is living right next door to this household:
Name: Thomas Baker
Age: 6
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Gender: Male
Where born: Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Ellesmere
Hundred: Pimhill (Ellesmere Division)
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Ellesmere
Charles Baker 9
Emma Baker 35
Richard Baker 3
Thomas Baker 30
Thomas Baker 6
Jane Thomas 10
Thomas Jr. could be your Thomas Baker, or that Thomas & Emma themselves could be the aunt and uncle (I haven't checked the ages of the ones your person was living with later).
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Emma and Thomas Baker in 1861 were aged 57 and 55, so they look like the parents in that 1841 household.
You've noted that there's a Mary Barlow in the 1861 Baker household as well? Sister-in-law to the head of household, which is odd if Emma's birth surname was Price. Where did the Price come from, i.e. where did you get that info?
edit: Mary Barlow was a widow, so presumably her birth surname was Price and she was sister to Emma Price Baker.
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Ah, the Baker-Price info came from the IGI.
This could be the Thomas parents' marriage:
RICHARD THOMAS
Spouse: ELIZABETH ROBERTS
Marriage: 27 DEC 1826 Ellesmere, Shropshire, England
Batch No.: M037422
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Peter Barlow -- and he had only one wife??
Looks like Martha Thomas Barlow here in 1851, living with the same parents as that Sarah Thomas in 1841:
Name: Martha Thomas
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Richard
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Ellesmere, Shropshire, England
Civil Parish: Dudleston Heath
County/Island: Shropshire
Country: England
Registration district: Ellesmere
Sub-registration district: Overton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2i
Household schedule number: 121
Martha Hughes 4
Elizabeth Thomas 66
Emma Thomas 13
Martha Thomas 23
Richard Thomas 66
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