Find Ancestors

Okay, one by one.

"I have Emma's marriage cert and yes it has Isaac Sandoe as her father and a witness to the wedding was Jessie Annie Sandoe could this poosibly be Isaac's sister."


Nope -- she's this person, in the 1871 census:

Name: Jessie H Sandoe
Age: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Jessie
Gender: Female
Where born: Falmouth, Cornwall, England

It looks like an H, but could be intended to be an A.

See up above -- in 1871, she is the daughter of Jessie (recorded as male, spelled like that), a widower.

Except that Jessie is obviously her mother, not her father; this is the household in 1861:

Henry Sandoe 33
Jessie Sandoe 29
Louisa Sandoe 3
Elizabeth D Sandoe 1

Jane Sandoe is in the household in 1871, aged 15, but not in the 1861 household, where you would expect to see her if she was a daughter of Jessie and Henry.

This seems to be young Jessie in 1881:

Name: Jessie Sandow
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Falmouth, Cornwall, England


-- but oh, no, I'm wrong, she's too young to be a witness to an 1868 marriage.

So the Jessie Sandoe witness has to be mother Jessie, widow of Henry.

And this is their marriage:

Name: Henry Sandoe + Jessie Hocking
Year of Registration: 1854
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Falmouth
County: Cornwall
Volume: 5c
Page: 381


So -- is *Henry Sandoe* Isaac's brother?

"So where does Emma and her sister Margaret come from."

Yes. Well. ;)

Where do you know of Margaret from? So far I don't think I've found anything about her.

If it's okay with you, we'll just keep doing this here -- it means I've got all the stuff so far laid out in one place.

Hi again Katherine,
i had a look for Samuel Bice and found a site about his son Sir John George Bice, I don't know if you have seen it the site is Australian Biography. By the way i live in Australia also.
Lorraine.

Hi there Katherine,
yes Emma did marry my great grandfather Henry Edward Price . I do believe its Truro Cornwall that they were born but not positive. I do not know anything about his death i have looked myself. I have Isaac and Sarah's marriage cert and Isaac's father is listed as Stephen, and he was a seaman also........Lorraine

Curious -- Isaac's wife Sarah died in 1909, but there seems to be no record of Isaac's death. Do you know anything about it?

That was Emma's marriage Sue found, Lorraine. She was looking in the wrong list, and thought it was a birth. ;)

But again -- could you just confirm that that *is* Emma's marriage?

C'mon, Lorraine -- a *little* bit more! We have to sort out the people in order to know where to focus. -- Ah, we crossed in the post. So you do think it makes sense. Any more comments about anything in particular?

Your Emma Caroline & her origins obviously aren't just going to jump out of the cake for us! We gotta track her down, through whatever traces we can find.

Did you know what Isaac's occupation was? Have you ever found him on a census? You saw what I went through trying to find him! Do you think that's him in 1861 -- in Beirut, no less! -- given that his occupation in 1881, when we know it is him for sure, given the wife's name, is the same? -- crossing again: yes, we have the right Isaac; yours was a sailor.

If that's him in 1861, then he was likely at sea when Emma Caroline was born.

What do you think of this Jane Sandoe Stearnes (edit -- it's Searles, not Stearnes), apparently sister to Emma Caroline?


Here's the one I have my eye on as being your Emma Caroline in 1860:


Name: Emma C Treggiddia
Age: 5 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Female
Where born: Tregony, Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: St James and Tregony
Town: Tregony
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: Truro
Sub-registration district: Probus
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 63

Elizabeth Tregiddia 24 - head
William Treggiddia 18 - brother
George Treggiddia 2 - son (of Elizabeth, presumably)
Emma Treggiddia 21 - lodger
Emma C Treggiddia 5 Mo -daughter
Mary Miners 27 - lodger
Ann Miners 3 Mo - daughter


All for adults are agricultural labours. All are unmarried. Presumably they are all siblings.

There are dozens of Tre- surnames in Cornwall, most of which their owners didn't spell consistently -- let alone enumerators knowing how to spell them, or even registrars. And then there are Ancestry's scribes ...

In the same municipality in 1861, we have a Tregenza and two Tregeagles. Not likely, although I haven't checked the images.


Although the four of them reported being born in Tregony, they aren't there in 1851.

If you look at Gurney Row (presumably the same as Gurney Place in 1861), Tregony, at Google maps, you can see it as one of about 6 streets in Tregony.


Mary Miners seems to be there in 1851:


Name: Mary Ann Miners
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1836
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Samuel
Mother's Name: Peggy
Gender: Female
Where born: Tregony, Cornwall, England

On Gurney Place, in fact.


I suspect the surname is actually a variation on Tressider / Tresidder. But there are also things like Tregidga ...

If we had late registration, which wouldn't surprise me, this could be the birth:


Name: Emma Tresidder
Year of Registration: 1861
Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
District: Penzance
County: Cornwall
Volume: 5c
Page: 534


But what wouldn't surprise me is if that Emma / your Emma Caroline wasn't registered. I can't find birth registrations for either of the other two children in that household, either.


But so much for all that. In 1871 in Tregony:


James Elliott 41
Emma Tregidga 31
Emma C Tregidga 11
James Tregidga 2
Jane A Tregidga 5
John H Tregidga 9


At that time, your Emma Caroline is in Stratford Le Bow, at least as far as I could make out.

Could you maybe confirm that that's her in 1871, in Stratford Le Bow?

Name: Emma Sandel
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Cornwall, England


And anything else you might think about it all??


I'm curious about Sandoes, you see. I'd like to know more about the connection between my Hills and the Sandoe family, if any, since it seems that my gr-grfather Hill (then Monck) traipsed off to Australia to work with the son of Samuel Sandoe Bice, and I'm assuming that Bice's mother was a Sandoe, or there was some other close connection.

It's not the rarest surname in that part of the world. But it isn't Smith. Or Hill. ;)

Hi Sue,
the name is the same but my Emma was born in 1860 thanks for looking , by the way i am in Perth also i am in Mandurah.
Lorraine.

Hey Katherine or should i say sherlock
you have done a great job my Isaac was indeed a sailor so it seems you are on the right track. So do you think Emma Caroline Sandoe could be listed under a mispelt name. Thanks so much. Lorraine

Hi Kathryn,
you have the right family emma caroline was born in 1860 in truo cornwall as far as i know but i can not find any birth registered. thanks so much for your help. Lorraine

We are cooking with gas. Searching on vessels -- what do you think of this one in 1861 -- or do you know all this already??? Or know things that contradict it ...


Name: Isaac Sandle
(It says Sandle, but it was a boat ...)
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Lg Seaman (Seaman)
Gender: Male
Where born: Stonehouse, Devon, England

Civil Parish: Vessels
Town: Beirut Syria
County/Island: Royal Navy
Country: England

Registration district: Royal Navy
Sub-registration district: Royal Navy
ED, institution, or vessel: Renown
Household schedule number: 1


My grx2 grfather was born in Tamerton Foliott, which became Stonehouse in his 1851 census record, when he was living in Cornwall. A lot of crossover there. It's all essentially Plymouth.

At last, at last, at last!

Do you have access to Ancestry to fix all the mistranscriptions?

1881:


Name: Isaac Sands
Age: 53
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: Hamlet
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 250 Oxford St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Occupation: Sailor <<<<

Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 24

Isaac Sands 53
James Sands 16 - printer
Sarah Sands 49


But no anywhere in Cornwall, just Cornwall.

Age 53 makes him older than you thought, if it's accurate.

Could this be Jane in 1871?


Name: Jane Sandoe
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Jessie
Gender: Female
Where born: Mylor, Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: Falmouth
Ecclesiastical parish: Falmouth
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: Falmouth
Sub-registration district: Falmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 215

Alexander D Sandoe 6
Jane Sandoe 15 - school teacher
Jessie Sandoe 39 - widow, laundress
Jessie H Sandoe 4
Louie Sandoe 13
William H Sandoe 8


This seems to be young Jessie from that household, in 1881:


Name: Jessie Sandow
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Falmouth, Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: Wolborough
County/Island: Devon
Country: England

Street address: 25 Courtney St.
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Newton Abbot
Sub-registration district: Newton Abbot
ED, institution, or vessel: 16

Eliza Rilslon 51 -- it's Rilston
Thomas Rilslon 51
Jessie Sandow 13


Well, this is the 1871 household in 1861, but Jane, who should have been there aged about 5, isn't:


Name: Henry Sandoe
Age: 33
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1828
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Jessie
Gender: Male
Where born: Mylor, Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: Falmouth
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England

Registration district: Falmouth
Sub-registration district: Falmouth
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Household schedule number: 2

Elizabeth D Sandoe 1
Henry Sandoe 33
Jessie Sandoe 29
Louisa Sandoe 3


We're interested in Jane because Isaac's daughter Sarah Jessie is apparently living with her in Bethnal Green in 1881, and enumerated as her sister ...

Well, whoever Jane is, here she is:


Marriages Mar 1882
SANDOE Jane Annie Lewisham 1d 1033
SEARLES Thomas Lewisham 1d 1033


Born c1854, Middlesex. Nope, no record of that birth, or anything resembling.

Is she Emma Caroline's sister??

Working backwards: here's Sarah in 1901, with nonsense for the relationships:


Name: Sarah Sandoe
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Son -- it's blank, she's a widow, and obviously HOH
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Where born: Whitechapel

Name: Jessie Sandoe
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Sarah
Gender: Female
Where born: Stepney
Occupation: machinist

Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Mile End Old Town
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End, Old Town, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Household schedule number: 224

None of the other people shown as household members have anything to do with them.


1891:

Name: Sarah Sandoe
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relation: Wife
Gender: Female
Where born: In, London, England

Civil Parish: Mile End Old Town
Ecclesiastical parish: Stepney St Thomas
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town, Western
ED, institution, or vessel: 18

Jessie Sandoe 22
Sarah Sandoe 62


It says "wife", "wid". Go figure.



Now, what's Jessie doing in 1881?


Name: Sarah J. Sandoe
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Sister
Gender: Female
Where born: Stepney, Middlesex, England
Occupation: Scholar

Name: Jane A. Tearles -- it's Searles
Age: 27
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: St Lukes, Middlesex, England
Condition as to marriage: Married

Civil Parish: Bethnal Green
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 6 Suffolk St

Registration district: Bethnal Green
Sub-registration district: Bethnal Green
ED, institution, or vessel: 12

Edward N. Stone 52
Emma Stone 50

Jane A. Tearles 27
Sarah J. Sandoe 11


Jane Searles is a lodger, and it appears that Sarah Jessie is her sister.

Any theories?

Could this be Isaac's wife's death?


Name: Sarah Sandoe
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Year of Registration: 1909
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
Age at Death: 70
District: Bethnal Green
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 101


The thing is that for Isaac himself I can't find hide nor hair.

What do we know about sister Margaret?

There are only two Margaret Sandoe marriages:
Truro 1852
Chorlton 1915
Neither one is a remote possibility.

So anyhow, what I think isn't that she was adopted, it's that she was born to an unmarried mother. Registered in the mother's name, but used Sandoe's name. I just can't figure out what name!

You do need to get her marriage certificate, to check that she named Sandoe as her father.

This is her in 1871 -- checked the image; it's faint, but it says Sandoe:


Name: Emma Sandel
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Cornwall, England

Civil Parish: St Mary Stratford Le Bow
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: Poplar
Sub-registration district: Bow
ED, institution, or vessel: 56
Household schedule number: 37

Mary Hatton 13 months
Hutton 21
M Pearce 45
R Pearce 20
Emma Sandel 11


Still we just have "Cornwall".

Ah woops better have another cuo of coffee

Sue

Nah, in 1901 she's back to being local:

Name: Emma C Price
Age: 41
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Henry E
Gender: Female
Where born: Bethnal Green, London, England