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Vanessa
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23 Dec 2007 15:50 |
Hi I have just found out my gt grandmothers maiden name, elizabeth woodbridge after a long search. I know she lived in rotherham when she was married but i am unsure if she was born here. I would love to find her exact birth date, and details so i can carry on with my search. I am guessing she was born sometime in the 1890s, as she had my gran violet in 1914. If anyone has any information, i would love to hear from you. Regards Vanessa.
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K
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23 Dec 2007 16:03 |
Do you have her father's name and occupation from her marraige cert?
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Vanessa
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23 Dec 2007 16:17 |
Hi k, Im afraid i dont have her fathers name or her marriage certificate. I have only just found out her maiden name after a long search, as someone very kindly found my gran's birth certificate details for me and it was listed on there. I know i dont stand much chance of finding anything further as i dont have any other details on her. Regards Vanessa.
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K
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23 Dec 2007 16:26 |
Hi Vanessa
What would her husband's name have been? You never know
Happy Xmas Kay
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Vanessa
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23 Dec 2007 16:31 |
Hi Kay, Her husband was philip Blackwell but i cant find anything on him anywhere. I know after philip's death she remarried a archie hibbard, but i cant find anything on him either. It seems every time i find a name etc, where i think their could be a lead, i find nothing. Regards vanessa.
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Ivy
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23 Dec 2007 16:42 |
Hi Vanessa,
K's suggestion that you follow the father seems a good one. Violet's birth ref gives the maiden name, but the likely marriage is to a Burgin - was this her second marriage?
Marriages Jun 1911 (>99%) Blackwell Philip Sheffield 9c 893 Burgin Elizabeth W Sheffield 9c 893 Giles Mary Sheffield 9c 893
This Philip seems to have been born 1891 (Eccleshall Bierlow)?
Or is this Elizabeth Woodbridge Burgin (following her mother's remarriage perhaps?)
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K
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23 Dec 2007 16:52 |
I am checking the complete marriage records but given Elizabeth living in Rotherham and Phillip's reasonably unusual name I would think this could be him
1901
Name: Phillip Blackwell Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891 Relation: Son Father's Name: Sam Mother's Name: Emily Gender: Male Where born: Sheff, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Brightside Bierlow Ecclesiastical parish: Brightside All Saints County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image Registration district: Sheffield Sub-registration district: East Brightside ED, institution, or vessel: 10 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 193 Household Members: Name Age Emily Blackwell 32 Ernest Blackwell 6 Phillip Blackwell 10 Sam Blackwell 32 Pig iron Labourer in Iron Works b Derbyshire Eyam Sam Blackwell 3 Everyone but Sam was born in Sheffield
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Vanessa
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23 Dec 2007 16:53 |
Hi Ivy, I have never heard the name burgin mentioned before. Her first husband was philip Blackwell, the father to my gran violet, when he died elizabeth was suppose to have married a archie hibbard. On the info you have sent me It says elizabeth burgin, is this her maiden name before she married philip, as the other day someone told me her maiden name was woodbridge, so now i am really confused. Also who is the other name mary giles. Regards vanessa.
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Ivy
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23 Dec 2007 16:53 |
This family is from the same area as that Philip:
Name: Elizabeth Burgin Age: 6 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1895 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: George Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Female Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Ecclesall Bierlow Ecclesiastical parish: St Silas Town: Sheffield County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England
Registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow Sub-registration district: Ecclesall Bierlow ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 176 Household Members: Name Age Elizabeth Burgin 36 Elizabeth Burgin 6 George Burgin 39 George Burgin 15 John W Burgin 13 Charles Holland 17
Sorry, no, discount this one; George Burgin married Elizabeth Holland in 1885. Sorry, going to abandon this one for a while.
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Ivy
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23 Dec 2007 16:59 |
Hi Kay,
we're on a similar track - I'm just off though now.
Hi Vanessa, sorry to confuse, I was just thinking aloud really. The Woodbridge appears to come from Free BMD (it's free to look at, no subscription required) transcript of Violet's birth registration. Free BMD also has very few marriages for Phil*p Blackwell between 1901 and 1916 - the one posted above seems the most likely. Kay has found you that Philip's census details.
However, as you point out, there are two females and one male on that marriage record, and Philip may have married Mary Giles, or Elizabeth Burgin.
I was just speculating that he may have married Elizabeth Burgin, but that she had previously used the name Woodbridge - either from a previous marriage, or if her mother had married first a Woodbridge and then a Burgin.
Hope that's a bit clearer?? Apologies if not. Will check back later
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Vanessa
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23 Dec 2007 17:06 |
Hi kay and ivy, Thankyou for this, it means so much i have been looking for ages for information on these and have always come up with nothing. It is also really interesting that the blackwells seem to be from eyam in derbyshire, that's great. Also thanks ivy it looks like they have both been brought up in the same area in sheffield and got married. Does this mean the name woodbridge that i have been looking for as Elizabeth's maiden name is totally wrong, this would explain why i could never find her. Thanks again it's really appreciated regards Vanessa.
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K
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23 Dec 2007 17:23 |
Hi Vanessa and Ivy
I think the Blackwell line in reasonably OK but can find no link between the Burgin's and a Woodbridge family. I would think the details below as the Burgin's marrriage so wonder where the Woodbridge came in ?
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marriages Jun 1885 (>99%) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Brown Emma Sheffield 9c 560 Burgin George Sheffield 9c 560 Holland Elizabeth Sheffield 9c 560 MOSLEY Henry Sheffield 9c 560
Having said the above Eureka from FreeBmd and great work Ivy
Births Sep 1893 (>99%) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Burgin Elizabeth Woodbridge Sheffield 9c 636
The marriage of Elizabeth and Philip is from the second quarter of 1911 and would confirm this
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K
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23 Dec 2007 17:28 |
The Burgin's Ivy listed in 1901 were all born in Sheffield. It looks as though Charles Holland was a son of Elizabeth Holland pre her marraige to George
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Ivy
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23 Dec 2007 17:36 |
Hooray, excellent Kay.
I'm just worried that the Holland/Burgin ones are a false trail - I think there are about 11 EB's born around that date on the 1901 census - worth having another look?
(Apologies, actually logging out for a few hours now).
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K
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23 Dec 2007 17:37 |
This looks like Sam Blackwell's family in 1871
1871
Name: Sam Blackwell Age: 2 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Relation: Son Father's Name: Samuel Mother's Name: Sarah Gender: Male Where born: Eyam, Derbyshire, England Civil Parish: Brightside Bierlow Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability: View Image Registration district: Sheffield Sub-registration district: Brightside ED, institution, or vessel: 31 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 54 Household Members: Name Age Eliza Blackwell 5 John Blackwell 3 Sam Blackwell 2 Samuel Blackwell 31 Mechanics Labourer Sarah Blackwell 33 All born Eyam Derbyshire
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K
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23 Dec 2007 17:56 |
Ivy
You are quite correct about relooking at the census
There is another possible other Elizabeth Burgin but the only way to really confirm it would be through her marraige and birth cert
Digressing to Archie Hibbard - the details below are the only I could see in the 1901 census for his name
Good Luck Vanessa and Happy Xmas to you both Must cook tea before my husband thinks I have left home
Kay
1901
Name: Archibald Hibbard Age: 9 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1892 Relation: Son Mother's Name: Helen Gender: Male Where born: Heanor, Derbyshire, England Civil Parish: Chesterfield Ecclesiastical parish: Chesterfield St Mary and Calow All Saints Town: Chesterfield County/Island: Derbyshire Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status: View Image Registration district: Chesterfield Sub-registration district: Chesterfield ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 169 Household Members: Name Age Annie Hibbard 15 Archibald Hibbard 9 Frederick Hibbard 18 Helen Hibbard 52
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Vanessa
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23 Dec 2007 21:13 |
Hi Kay Ivy and suzi, I have just logged back on, as i had a relative visit, so had to come off. I see you have still been very busy on my behalf, so thankyou. I know i might sound stupid but can you confirm is my gt grandmother's maiden name woodbridge burgin, i have got a bit confused with all the different names. Regards Vanessa
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Ivy
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24 Dec 2007 07:47 |
Hi Vanessa,
You can never be absolutely certain - there is always the possibility of there being someone else with the same name, however rare it is.
However, the odds look good here, and to get further you will undoubtedly need to buy a certificate.
From a marriage certificate, you are likely to get: District, Church, Parish, Location, Date of Marriage, Forename & Surnames, Ages, Marital Conditions, Professions, Addresses, Father's Forename & Surname, Father's Occupations, for both parties present. Witness names, Priest/Vicar's Name,& Signature
The info on the church means that if you have any doubts you may be able to look at an alternative copy of the marriage entry.
From a birth certificate, you may get:
District, Date & Place of Birth, Child's ForeNames & Surname, Child's Sex, Father's Name, Fathers Place of Birth, Father's Occupation, Mother's Name, Mother's Occupation, Mother's Place of Birth, Mother's Usual Address, Informant's Name, Informants Qualification, Informant's Address, Informant's Signature, Date of Registration,Registrar's Name & Signature, Child's Revised Name (if any, after registration).
Buying from GRO can be done online for £7 at this address www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ Alternatively you can apply to the local register office. Following through the links on Free BMD to details about the Sheffield office, the contact details you need are:
The Register Office, The Town Hall, Pinstone Street, Sheffield, S1 2HH. Tel: 0114 203 9423 or 0114 203 9438. E-mail: [email protected]
1) Applying online to GRO
They ask if you know the index details - and you do - the FRee BMD site not only gives the transcript of the index entry, it also (if you click on the glasses at the side of the entry, and then scroll down a little) offers you the opportunity to view the image - i.e. the scanned image of the entry in the index.
At the least, you need to give all the details of one party to the marriage. I would be inclined to give the details for Philip Blackwell's marriage: Year 1911 Qtr April-June District Sheffield Volume 9c Page 893
You can request checking points, for instance that the bride's name is Elizabeth (if it is Mary Giles, it seems unlikely to be the marriage you are looking for). Actually I practically never do - you only get a partial refund, and I understand that it could be something as silly as the bride's name is Elisabeth (although I think someone on here said GRO had rung to ask what she wanted to do when the checking point failed). Also, I'm too curious to be willing to spend money without getting a piece of paper in my hand!
The birth registration that Kay found is:
Year: 1893 Qtr: Jul-Sep Surname: Burgin Forenames: Elizabeth Woodbridge District: Sheffield Vol: 9c Page 636
You could order both these certificates, or you could wait until you have the bride's father's details from the marriage certificate before ordering the birth certificate.
2) Applying to the local district
There was a very useful thread on here some time ago about applying for certificates from the local office (including a standard letter, to include your phone number and a request to ring before sending). They are usually very helpful and will agree with you over the phone that it is the certificate that you were after before sending it - and will give a full refund if not. (There are just a couple of local offices that are too busy to do this, but I haven't seen any issues with Sheffield).
I'll see if I can find that thread and nudge it for you.
Meanwhile, I hope this is clear.
All the best
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Vanessa
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24 Dec 2007 15:32 |
Hi Ivy, Thankyou so much i will definately send for the certificates, now i have all the information you have kindly found for me. It is really kind of you to go to so much trouble, and everything is now crystal clear. Also a big thankyou to kay and suzi, who also helped me in my search. Merry christmas and happy new year Vanessa.
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Ivy
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24 Dec 2007 18:19 |
Hi Vanessa,
In searching for info about appoaching local register offices, I see that they are excellent for obtaining birth certificates, but many also require the name of the church/registry office where the marriage took place, so you may have to go to GRO for the marriage certificate - apologies for misleading you on this one.
Hope you too have an excellent seven days.
All the best
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