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val1963
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26 Dec 2007 15:12 |
Thank you Margaret Yes the 1st marriage is the right one Thanks for the Christening details for two of the children Val
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MargaretM
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26 Dec 2007 15:02 |
2 children of Robert & Jane? Also from BVRI:
COWAN, John Christening Gender: Male Christening Date: 17 Sep 1855 Recorded in: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England Collection: All Saints Father: Robert COWAN Mother: Jane Source: FHL Film 1068964 Dates: 1843 - 1864
COWAN, Thomas Christening Gender: Male Christening Date: 9 Mar 1857 Recorded in: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England Collection: All Saints Father: Robert COWAN Mother: Jane Source: FHL Film 1068964 Dates: 1843 - 1864
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MargaretM
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26 Dec 2007 14:49 |
Could this be the first marriage? It's from BVRI:
ARTHUR, Thomas Marriage Wife: Jane PRINGLE Marriage Date: 23 Sep 1844 Recorded in: Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland, England Collection: All Saints Husband's Father: John ARTHUR Wife's Father: Thomas PRINGLE Source: FHL Film 1068969 Dates: 1844 - 1847
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val1963
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26 Dec 2007 14:30 |
Ivy
thanks for the 1841 census i'll have a look at the IGI On my g grandfather's & 2 of his brother's birth cert's she has reverted back to her maiden name i have a birth cert for there daughter Jane b1861 but Jane (mother) maiden name looks like bengabe or Bengalie. i think its miscribed. Val
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 13:21 |
Hi Valerie,
Glad to have helped a bit - I am struggling with the 1841 though!
I see that although Thomas and Mary are born in Warkworth, and Margaret and Jane in Bilton/Lesbury, the children were born in Newcastle, so this family is likely to be there in 1841.
A possibility for Thomas and Margaret in 1841 is below - the sons George and William fit, but there is no Jane here; the older children John (23 by 1851) and Margaret (17 by 1851) may have left home - but if this is the same family, I wonder what happened to Robert?
Name: Thomas Pregler (image may say Pringle) Age: 45 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1796 Gender: Male Where born: Northumberland, England Civil Parish: All Saints Hundred: Tindale (West Division) County/Island: Northumberland Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle upon Tyne Sub-registration district: All Saints
Household Members: Name Age George Pregler 4 John Pregler 13 Margaret Pregler 40 Margaret Pregler 7 Robert Pregler 2 Mo Thomas Pregler 45 William Pregler 10
If anything else strikes me, I'll get back to you.
All the best
PS the IGI has extracted Pringle records from a non-conformist church in Alnwick (not sure whether these would be your family, though) - the batch ref is C080301
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val1963
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26 Dec 2007 12:55 |
Wow Ivy Thank you so much i have struggled with my gg grandparents for ages but you are brilliant i will do a lengthy search of the 1851 census to find Jane many thanks Val
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 09:14 |
I think I'll have to leave it for now.
None of the three Bamburgh/Morpeth/Tynemouth entries appear to fit with the 1851 census entry above.
You may have to widen the search for different spellings, and cross-check against the others on the 1851 census, which whilst possible, could be a little lengthy. I hope you do strike lucky soon.
All the best
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 09:07 |
OK, going back to 1841 -
there are 7 instances of Jane Pringle in Northumberland in 1841:
b 1821 at Earsdon (prob unlikely since ages are rounded down)
b 1826 in Northumberland: Bamburgh, Morpeth and Tynemouth entries
b 1826 but not in Northumberland (can prob therefore discount this one)
b 1830 Warkworth b 1831 Alnwick (these two are possible, but at ages 11 and 10, they look too young).
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 08:46 |
Actually, the transcription above does not do justice to this household:
on the image, in order, they are:
Thomas Pringle, Head, Widr*, 56 (Occupation Cartman's Wife - as ditto from the previous household) Margaret Pringle, Wife*, Mar 51 Jane Ather, Sister, Mar, 29 Sarah Ather, Daur, U, 4 George Pringle, Son of Head, U, 14 William Pringle, Son of Head, U, 20 Mary Lowan, Visitor, Mar, 28 John M(..)ers, Visitor, U, 20
*I'm not sure how the widower/wife entries stack up for Thomas and Margaret
Lowan looks an odd name to me. There are just 4 instances on the 1851 England census, so could it be an mistranscription by the enumerator for Cowan(s)?
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 08:32 |
OK, I think I have it now (apologies, rather went all round the houses on this one!)
Name: Sarah Alther Age: 4 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1847 Relation: Daughter Father's Name: Thomas Mother's Name: Margaret Gender: Female Where born: Newcastle, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Newcastle Upon Tyne All Saints Town: Newcastle Upon Tyne County/Island: Northumberland Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne Sub-registration district: All Saints ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Household schedule number: 204 Household Members: Name Age Jane Alther 29 Sarah Alther 4 Margaret Pringle 51 Thomas Pringle 56
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 08:17 |
Bilton and Lesbury are small villages either side of the river, between Alnwick and Alnmouth. However, looking for Jane born approx 1827 in Alnwick brought up only a servant (a nurse, and a widow, according to the image):
Name: Jane Athey Age: 25 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Servant Gender: Female Where born: Alnwick, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Jesmond Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrew County/Island: Northumberland Country: England Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne Sub-registration district: Byker ED, institution, or vessel: 4b
Household schedule number: 242 Household Members: Name Age Jane Athey 25 <<<<<< ?? (suspect not) Rachael Elliott 16 Mary Ogle 31 Mary J Ogle 3 Robert Ogle 33 Robert B E Ogle 7 Mo Jane Ormston 32
(Edited - the posting on the next page is much more likely)
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 07:55 |
Looking for deaths of Thomas Art* between 1844 and 1851, the 50 or so listed for England and Wales are mainly in Southern England. Discounting some Lancashire and Yorkshire ones, there is a death in Gateshead in the Sep qtr 1849 of Thomas Arthur.
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 07:48 |
Although Sarah Arter is shown as boarder on the 1861 census, she may be Jane's child from a previous marriage.
Free BMD has this marriage (amongst others) for a Jane Pringle:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Sep 1844 (>99%) ARTHUR Thomas Newcastle T 25 269 <<<<<< ?? CARSON William Newcastle Te 25 269 DOUGLAS Margaret Newcastle Tyne 25 269 HUMPHREY John Halstead Newcastle Te 25 269 McCLENNELL Mary Ann Newcastle T 25 269 NICHOLSON Elizabeth Newtle Tyne 25 269 PRINGLE Jane Newtle Tyne 25 269 SKELTON Thomas Newcastle T 25 269
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 07:34 |
The 1861 and the 1871 census returns both show two Robert Cowans born in Northumberland - this is the marriage of the other Robert:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Jun 1855 (>99%) COWANS Robert Rothbury 10b 494 MILBURN Eleanor Rothbury 10b 494
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 07:30 |
(As an aside, I see Robert may well be in Scotland in 1851 - see Parish: Hownam; ED: 1; Line: 6; Year: 1851- but Jane is not in that household)
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 07:26 |
- and a third alternative from 1871:
Name: Jane Cowans Age: 44 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Robert Gender: Female Where born: Chester, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Witton Gilbert Ecclesiastical parish: Sacriston St Peter Town: Sacriston County/Island: Durham Country: England
Registration district: Chester Le Street Sub-registration district: Chester le Street ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Household schedule number: 164 Household Members: Name Age Jane Cowans 44 Jane Cowans 9 John Cowans 15 Robert Cowans 43 Robert Cowans 12 Thomas Cowans 14 William Cowans 6
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Ivy
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26 Dec 2007 07:22 |
Just posting 1881 with an alternative place of birth for Jane:
Name: Jane Cowans Age: 55 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Robert Gender: Female Where born: Bilton, Northumberland, England Civil Parish: Heworth County/Island: Durham Country: England Street address: 11 Railway Row Condition as to marriage: Married Education:
Employment status: View Image Registration district: Gateshead Sub-registration district: Heworth ED, institution, or vessel: 8a Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Jane Cowans 55 Jane Cowans 20 John Cowans 25 Robert Cowans 54 Robert Cowans 22 Thomas Cowans 23 William Cowans 16
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val1963
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25 Dec 2007 19:40 |
yeah i have 3 birth certs 1st is for my g grandfather & his 2 brother's
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Penny
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25 Dec 2007 19:37 |
have you got anyone's birth cert - how do you know her name was Pringle?
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val1963
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25 Dec 2007 19:27 |
thats them i can find them after 1861 i just cant find them before very puzzling!!!! i think
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