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Barbara
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2 Jan 2008 20:25 |
Seeking information on a Walker Butterworth possibly married in Canada 1906 .Possibility of using John Walker Butterworth . Originating from around Heap (Bury) Lancashire.
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JaneyCanuck
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2 Jan 2008 20:29 |
Here ya go!
Name: Walker Butterworth Birth Place: England Age: 43 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863 Father Name: Walker Butterworth Mother Name: Priscilla Howorth Spouse Name: Ada Rogers Spouse's Age: 35 Spouse Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 Spouse Birth Place: England Spouse Father Name: John Rogers Spouse Mother Name: Sarah Hack Marriage Date: 5 May 1906 Marriage Place: Simcoe Marriage County: Simcoe Family History Library Microfilm: MS932_124
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JaneyCanuck
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2 Jan 2008 20:36 |
Not seeing any births in Ontario up to 1909 (the cutoff date under privacy legislation), but are these kids theirs?
John Butterworth 1913 Apr-May-Jun Rogers Bromley Greater London, Kent Phyllis Butterworth 1911 Jul-Aug-Sep Rogers Bromley Greater London, Kent
That would explain why I didn't find them in the 1911 Cdn census, anyhow. ;)
Also didn't see him in the 1901. He must have come and gone in between.
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Barbara
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2 Jan 2008 21:16 |
Many thanks, not the same? according to the Birth certificate I have, our Walker was born 25th August 1857, Bury Road Heywood. Registered 10th Sept 1857.Father was also Walker, a stonemason, mother Priscilla formally Howarth .Some information same ,dates confusing.
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JaneyCanuck
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2 Jan 2008 21:50 |
Not the same?? Father Walker Butterworth, mother Priscilla Howarth -- sure looks the same to me!
Canadian records are - usually badly written - badly scanned - horribly badly transcribed by Ancestry
I hadn't checked the image; I always just assume there are transcription errors somewhere in any Cdn record at Ancestry.
Checking it now, it does appear to say "Howorth". Perhaps he didn't know how his mother's birth surname was spelled, perhaps an official heard it wrong and didn't ask, or read what Walker had written wrong ...
His age is given as 43, hers as 35. Men marrying women 14 years younger than themselves might not always have stated their age accurately. ;)
Walker Butterworth's occupation on the certificate is Farmer, and the marriage was performed in Orillia, a small city (then a small town) north of Toronto on Lake Simcoe.
I can send you a copy of the image if you send me a private message with your email address.
I don't think it's too likely that we're looking at two different Walker Butterworths born in England with father Walker Butterworth, mother Priscilla How*rth. ;)
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Barbara
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2 Jan 2008 23:29 |
Even more confusion!Prior to emigrating to Canada, Walker married an Elizabeth Clegg June 1881,age 23 Joiner ,father Walker stonemason. Between them they produced 12 children 6boys 6girls plus 3 stillborn or died as infants. We have him on the electral reg.1905 .When he left England his wife and 12 siblings were alive. We have him returning to his birth place around 1926 meeting one of his daughters. He returned to Canada and Elizabeth died.We have Walker deceased in Hamilton 1946.The Hamilton cemetary papers states that he was born England 1857 ,married 1881 widowed when buried.(he was on welfare at the time of his death).We are lacking info on what he did in Canada when he first arrived, when he retired he was working in a local foundary.We have his address in Hamilton were he resided. Nothing on a marriage in Canada, only it being suggested to his grandson 80's. via a third party.!!!!!!!!!
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Barbara
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2 Jan 2008 23:53 |
Just to add even more confusion, during my early research when reqesting a copy of his birth cert. from Bury, I received the wrong one, it appears that on the same day two women registered the births of their sons both of whom were christened Walker, both lived opposite each other in the same street and are sequential in the actual register. What became of this other Walker we have no idea because we have never researched him once we had established that we had the right one.Whether they have become intertwined over the years who knows? Barbara.
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JaneyCanuck
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3 Jan 2008 00:38 |
My goodness! Yes, I had seen Walker with wife Elizabeth in the censuses, and kinda suspected that kind of tale.
Even his wife had a doppelgänger:
Name: Ada Elizabeth Butterworth Death Date: 28 Sep 1918 Death Location: Muskoka District Gender: Female Estimated Birth Year: abt 1874 Birth Location: England
-- but the image shows father William Cox (and in the 1911 census her husband is George).
If you search at
http://www.findmypast.com/passengerListPersonSearchStart.action
you'll find a few W Butterworths and two Walters that could easily be Walker mistranscribed, in passenger lists to Canada 1901-1906:
BUTTERWORTH Walter Adult M 1903 Liverpool Canada Halifax VIEW VIEW BUTTERWORTH Walter Adult M 1903 Queenstown Canada Halifax
... except that conflicts with being on the electoral roll 1905 ... unless his wife just put him on, on spec.
And then there's this one:
BUTTERWORTH Walker 66 M 1924 Liverpool Canada Saint John Nb
Looks like maybe yer other WB getting married, in case you're curious:
Name: Walker Butterworth Year of Registration: 1891 Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar District: Rochdale County: Greater Manchester, Lancashire Volume: 8e Page: 41
Yup -- there are the two of them in 1891:
Walker Butterworth Elizabeth abt 1858 Heywood, Lancashire, England Head Heap Lancashire
Walker Butterworth Alice abt 1857 Heywood, Lancashire, England Head Heap Lancashire
Ontario death records are only accessible up to 1934, and I don't see a death for Ada (Rogers) Butterworth in that period.
... And the plot thickens:
Name: Ada Rogers Birth Place: On Age: 37 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1871 Father Name: John Setts (John Letts) Mother Name: Sarah Hack Spouse Name: Nelson Janes (James Nelson) Spouse's Age: 55 Spouse Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853 Spouse Birth Place: On Spouse Father Name: David Janes Spouse Mother Name: Livona Rose Marriage Date: 30 Dec 1908 Marriage Place: Simcoe Marriage County: Simcoe Family History Library Microfilm: MS932_137
!!!
Status of both parties at marriage: widow/widower.
I neglected to check -- both Walker Butterworth and Ada Rogers reported they were widowed at the 1906 marriage.
The only birth that matches the parents' names in Ontario is:
Name: Frederick William Letts Date of Birth: 16 Feb 1875 Gender: Male Father's Name: John Letts Mother's Name: Sarah Jane Hack Roll Number: MS929_21
But:
Name: Ada Letts Year of Registration: 1871 Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep District: Wolverhampton County: Shropshire, Staffordshire, West Midlands Volume: 6b Page: 463
Marriages Dec 1862 Dollimore William Leighton B. 3b 222 ** Hack Sarah Jane Daventry 3b 222 ** Letts John Daventry 3b 222
1901 Cdn census:
Name: John Lett Gender: Male Marital Status: Married Age: 59 Birth Date: 21 Mar 1842 Birthplace: England Relation to Head of House: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah J. Immigration Year: 1870 ** (obviously slightly later, between children's births) Racial or Tribal Origin: English Nationality: Canadain Religion: Salvation Army Occupation: Gardener Province: Ontario District: Victoria (South/Sud) District Number: 120 Sub-District: Lindsay (Town/Ville) Sub-District Number: C-4 Family Number: 195 Page: 18 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age John Lett 59 Sarah J. Lett 58
1881 Cdn census:
Name Marital Status Gender Ethnic Origin Age Birthplace Occupation Religion John LETTS M Male English 39 England Laborer Baptist Sarah LETTS M Female English 38 England Baptist George LETTS Male 18 England Baptist Jennie LETTS Female English 18 England Baptist Ada LETTS Female English 11 England Going To School Baptist Herbert LETTS Male English 8 O Going To School Baptist
Can't find the Ada Letts - Rogers marriage though.
Looks like after 1906 both parties -- Ada and Walker -- decided to go their separate ways, and lie about the problematic marriage!
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Barbara
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3 Jan 2008 19:12 |
UMMMM! Quite a lot to digest . Elizabeth was my great grand-mother. Born c1861 of William & Hannah Clegg.(nee Binns) Married Walker Butterworth 1881 (cert.) Children survived into adulthood:- Minnie Hannah(my grandmother) Jane Priscilla Charles William-Clegg- Butterworth John Howarth Butterworth Walker (killed in action 1917) Elizabeth Thomas Delilah (stillborn or infant) Ada..Robert..Arthur. Elizabeth died 31st Aug 1939. In her 79th year in Heywood (Bury New Road) Death cert plus Obituary of Attendants from local paper. Walker being a town councillor for three years(1895-1898).She lived all her life within the same area of Heywood formally Heap.Most of their early married life was spent on Crab High Farm and Lower Lomax farm.Giving up the farms in the early 1900's when Walker went off to Canada. She is interred in Heywood Cemetery in a large double grave along with Ada . Robert . Arthur .Elizabeth(daughter) Delilah. Alongside in the adjoining grave is her Mother-in-Law Priscilla Whipp nee Howarth formally Butterworth. I have all the Grave details and visit on a weekly basis. One of her surviving grandsons attended the funeral and I am still in regular contact with him even though he is now into his 80's. It would appear that this puts a slightly different slant on the information that you are holding?
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JaneyCanuck
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3 Jan 2008 20:22 |
I dunno, Barbara!
All I can do is give you the info that's in the Cdn records, as I can find it and as you requested. I don't know what slant your info would put on those records. Those records do seem to put a bit of a slant on Mr. Butterworth, who seems to have done quite badly by his wife and children.
It looks like Mr. Butterworth was a bigamist, by contracting a marriage in Canada when he was already married in England.
I guess one couldn't say that Ada Letts Rogers Butterworth James (or Nelson?) was a bigamist, because her marriage to Mr. Butterworth, when she was a widow (she said), was what we in the law biz call "void ab initio" -- it was never a marriage, because he was already married. She may have done something to have it formally declared void, but that would probably be impossible to find out.
I just don't think there's much possibility that the Walker Butterworth who married in Canada wasn't your Walker -- unless someone else had completely assumed his identity!
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JaneyCanuck
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3 Jan 2008 20:29 |
One more tidbit -- found the Letts-Rogers marriage by searching the database by her parents' names:
Name: Ida Le???? Birth Place: England Age: 21 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869 Father Name: John Let???? Mother Name: Sarah Le???? Spouse Name: William H Rog???? Spouse's Age: 28 Spouse Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862 Spouse Birth Place: England Spouse Father Name: John H Rog???? Spouse Mother Name: Elizabeth Rog???? Marriage Date: 19 Nov 1890 Marriage Place: Victoria Marriage County: Victoria Family History Library Microfilm: MS932_69
The page is torn so the names are not complete.
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Barbara
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3 Jan 2008 20:51 |
Many thanks for all the info provided the plot really thickens, we had a search done in Canada by a local in Hamilton and he came up with all the death and work related details but could find nothing regarding any marriage ect. Barbara
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