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Please could anyone help me find any info on my great grandmother Winnie Williams' family? I think she was born in the early 1900s in the Wrexham area or nearby and was a teacher. She had a son Eric to Michael Thompson (a doctor from Ireland who I think emigrated to the USA). They weren't married and Eric lived for a time with her sister Elsie in North East England. I know Winnie had sisters Molly, Betty and Elsie and I think there might have also been a brother. Molly and Betty were living in Coed Poeth in the 1980s.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Did Winnie have a second name please?
Do you have any idea of her parents names?

When was Eric born and where please?

Betty would most likely be Elizabeth,what would Molly have been born as ?
Molly or is that also a pet name?
Any idea of any of their birth years or second names?

There is a Winifred Grace Williams born Coedpoeth in 1901 on the 1911 census with sisters Florence,Elizabeth May and brother Thomas Henry.
Parents are Charles and Mary Ann Elizabeth.

Afraid there are too many Winifred Williams born in Wrexham early 1900s.
You would need to narrow it down somehow.
Perhaps she is on 1911 census.

Thanks for your replies.

Unfortunately I have no idea whether any of them had second names, if these were pet names or their parents names.

Eric was born in Quebec, Co. Durham, UK in 1926 and went to live with his aunt Elsie France who was married to Sam.

I know of the sisters Molly was the oldest (c1900), then Winnie (c1905), Betty (c1910) and Elsie (c1915). I think Elsie was the only one to marry.

I have found Molly's and Winnie's on the census but none seem to fit the details I know.

Joanne

Do you know where Elsie was living before she died, as we can then find her death certificate which will give, maybe, an exact birth date?
Thanks

Or when and where Winnie or any of the others died for the same reason....

This is the 1911 I spoke of earlier.

Married 12 years,4 children born,4 living.

WILLIAMS, Charles Head Married M 38 1873 Colliery Labourer Above Ground Coedpoeth Wrexham
WILLIAMS, Mary Ann Elizabeth Wife Married F 34 1877 Bootle Liverpool
WILLIAMS, Winifred Grace Daughter F 10 1901 Coedpoeth Wrexham
WILLIAMS, Thomas Henry Son M 9 1902 Coedpoeth Wrexham
WILLIAMS, Florence Daughter F 8 1903 Coedpoeth Wrexham
WILLIAMS, Elizabeth May Daughter F 3 1908 Coedpoeth Wrexham
RG number:
RG14 Piece:
34033 Reference:
RG14PN34033 RG78PN1965 RD621 SD3 ED6 SN214

Registration District:
Wrexham Sub District:
Wrexham Enumeration District:
6 Parish:
Bersham

Address:
16 Nant Square Coedpoeth County:
Denbighshire

FBG i would say you find looks fairly good.

I would also suggest Molly is Florence.... :-)


Tracey x

I did wonder last night Tracey as the Coedpoeth is there and that is where 2 of the girls were in the 1980s so Joanne says..

If we knew when Eric was born we'd be able to narrow downt he search for Michael on the emigration records!


Tracey x

Eric was born in 1926

FBG

The marriage that matches your 911 find.

Marriages Jun 1899
Williams Charles Wrexham 11b 417
Woodhouse Mary Ann E Wrexham 11b 417


Tracey x

England & Wales, Marriage Index: 1916-2005 about Samuel France
Name: Samuel France
Spouse Surname: Williams
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Lanchester
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 836

Name: Elsie Williams
Spouse Surname: France
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1920
Registration district: Lanchester
Registration county (inferred): Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 835


So maybe the girls are older than thought?

Births Mar 1927
Williams Eric Williams Sunderland 10a 1134

Joanne says that Molly is the oldest, then Winnie. So 1911 does not fit that unless Joanne has been told incorrectly?

Do you have any names ages for Sam and Elsie France children Joanne...

Like?

Name: Audrey France
Mother's Maiden Surname: Williams
Date of Registration: Jul Aug Sep 1925

I think it best to try to get there through Elsie as she is the one that the most seems to be known about..

That is my opinion for what it is worth anyway....

Sadly people's memories change over time, it's quite possible facts have been muddled over the years.


Tracey x

Patricia
I think Elsie was stayed in the Co. Durham area but no idea about her death.

FannyByGaslight
I know Winnie died first but no idea when probably before 1977. Molly died around 1987 aged approx 94 in Coedpoeth. Betty was definitely still alive in 2000 and living near to Coedpoeth. I am only assuming she's dead now.

It is possible they are older than I thought I'm trying to work out ages from the one occassion I met them as a child.

Thanks again to you all

Patricia,

I have had a fairly good look at the 1911 census and the one FBG has found for you is the most likely in my opinion.

It has all the right people in the right place, the fact the order of birth is not right is somehting that could have been effected by time and memories, and the reliability of the data given.

The data for the 1911 is however written down by the parents.

It's possible Elsie lied on her marriage cert therefore making her appear to have been born earlier... indeed it might have been a pretence she kept up all her life!



Tracey x

"Molly died around 1987 aged approx 94 in Coedpoeth. "

That would give her a 1893 ish birth date.....

I will search some more tomorrow...Gotta go now.

Sam France and Elsie Williams marriage cert would give you their fathers name ,I can only find the one in 1920 to suit with a daughter Audrey born in 1925...

Interesting...

1901 RG number: RG13 Piece: 5219 Folio: 85 Page: 26
Address: 1, Middle Road, Bersham County: Denbighshire
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WYNNE, Robert E Head Married M 28 1873 Coal Miner Coedpoeth Denbighshire
WYNNE, Sarah A Wife Married F 31 1870 Mold Flintshire
ROBERTS, John E Nephew Single M 12 1889 Coedpoeth Denbighshire
WILLIAMS, Charles Boarder Single M 40 1861 Coal Miner Coedpoeth Denbighshire

This 'looks' like him in 1901...... but unmarried? Then again he could have been lodging away from home, and the person he's boarding with did not know he was married and listed him as single?


Tracey x