Genealogy Chat

Hi Selena,
I do have the info from IGI, thanks a lot anyhow. In fact it is wrong because it says that Charles McAllister is Alice's father, which he isn't. It was submitted by a cousin of my mum's who did a lot of family tree research and then died and all the info kind of died with her.

I had also found the 1881 census entry like you but there is not way of knowing if it is the same Charles or not. Just don't really know where to go from here. I had a look around he census for William Jolley's but there are loads so not very helpful either. Also it is a surname that is notoriously misspelt which doesn't help at all. I will soldier on anyhow,
Thanks for all your input,

Lorraine

Hi Selena, I guess anything is possible but I can't see that he would be in Berwick. And if I sent for the cert it might tell me nothing. William definately wasn't a cousin as I have all the branches of family and the nearest William was Mary Ann's grandfather's brother's son, who would have been her father's cousin. Don't have any record of his children - could look there and see if there are any William's - give me something else to look into I guess.
I always assumed that Alice Jolley was illegitimate and Mary Ann pretended that her father was called William Jolley so that name would go on the birth cert, but as has been pointed out to me, even if she was widowed it would have been more acceptable for her to have just given Alice the surname of McAllister. Oh well.
Thanks for your thoughts.

Lorraine

1881 - interesting.....

Charles MC ALLSTER

Other Information:
Birth Year
Birthplace London, Middlesex, England
Age 34
Occupation Stoker
Marital Status U
Head of Household William RICHARDS

Source Information:
Vessel "Salamis"
Census Place Royal Navy, England
Family History Library Film 1342355
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5640 / 38
Page Number 2

Here's a bit more

Alice Eliza JOLLEY (AFN: 56KC-G8) Pedigree
Sex: F Family


Event(s)
Birth: 10 Mar 1874
Southwark, Surrey, England
Death: 27 Jan 1945
Sidcup, Kent, England
Burial: 1945
Sidcup, Kent, England

Parents
Father: Charles MCALLISTER (AFN: 56KC-N9) Family
Mother: Mary Ann JOLLEY (AFN: 56KC-PG)



Spouse: George MILLS (AFN: 56KC-F3) Family
Marriage: 12 Oct 1891
Newington, Surrey, Eng

Spouse: George MCDONALD (AFN: 56KC-HF) Family
Marriage: 14 May 1922
Bermondsey, London, England

There is this submitted file on the IGI

Husband's Name
Charles MCALLISTER (AFN:56KC-N9) Pedigree

Born: Abt. 1847 Place:
Married: 4 Oct 1868 Place: Parish Church Of St. John, Southwark, Surrey, England

Father: Charles MCALLISTER (AFN:D13W-B7)
Mary Ann JOLLEY (AFN:56KC-PG) Pedigree

Born: 24 Dec 1849 Place: Bermondsey, Surrey, England
Married: 4 Oct 1868 Place: Parish Church Of St. John, Southwark, Surrey, England

Father: Joseph Charles JOLLEY (AFN:D13W-CD) Family
Mother: Alice THOROUGHGOOD (AFN:D13W-DK)


Children


1. Sex Name
F Alice Eliza JOLLEY (AFN:56KC-G8) Pedigree

Born: 10 Mar 1874 Place: Southwark, Surrey, England
Died: 27 Jan 1945 Place: Sidcup, Kent, England
Buried: 1945 Place: Sidcup, Kent, England

Is this a possible, long way from Southwark though!

Deaths Mar 1870
McAllister Charles 39 Berwick 10b 247

Selena

PS, maybe she didn't know that he died?

PPS, Could William Jolley have been a cousin and that's why they didn't marry

PPS, mistake on the birth certicate, registrar misunderstood, clutching at straws here

Just realised something else. On her marriage cert to Joseph Griffin in 1876, she is recorded as Mary Ann McAllister. Had she married William Jolley then she would have been Jolley. Interestingly, on the 1871 census there is a William Jolley in Southampton who is a ship steward. He was born in Middlesex, London and is 29 yrs old (although it looks like 20 yrs on the actual census). So he would be about the right age so maybe a possibility for Alice's father. Who knows. Any advice gratefully received.

Lorraine

Chris,
On her daughter Alice''s birth cert it says
Mary Ann Jolley
late McAllister
Formally Jolley
I don't know what they mean by late McAllister. If he'd died then she would still be McAllister. It's like they want you to think she then married a Jolley but there is no record of this that I have found and it seems highly unlikely and if so did he die too? Divorce is even more unlikely I would think. Certainly her daughter was born at her parents address which would make you think that she was back living with her parents on her own.

On Charles and Mary Anne's son Joseph's death cert, the informant is Mary Anne's father, but under occupation it says "son of Charles McAllister, General Labourer."Their son died in July 1871 so presumably Charles was still alive then or wouldn't they have said "deceased"?

I would so love to solve this riddle!

Lorraine

Lorraine

Thinking aloud and assuming I am reading your posting correctly...

Charles McAllister married Mary Ann Jolley in 1868 and they have a son in 1869.

Mary Ann has another child in 1874 named Alice and she uses her maiden name to register the child......Well that would be unusual!

If a woman was married then when registering the child it would be assumed that the child was her husbands, unless she was very open and honest and told the registrar otherwise!

Most women at that time would have been more than happy for the child to take her married name and for the assmption to be that her husband was the father...Even if he was dead or had absconded! She wouldn't have needed to have prove he was alive or even around.

I would wonder why she reverted to the name Jolley and made up a husband when she could legitimately have used her married name with no questions asked.

Chris

Hi,
I found the Mary Anne Jolley in the 1871 census and wondered also if it could be her.
I do have the marriage cert for Charles and Mary Anne but it just gives his age as "Full". His father was also Charles and was a Taylor. The witnesses were Mary Anne's parents. They were married in the Parish Church of St. John, Southwark. They were married in the October and their son was born only three months later so a shotgun wedding I assume.
Yes it was me who submitted the correction on the census.
I just wish I could find out more info on Charles himself like where he was born and his age as that would give me a lot more to go on and I might then find him in the census.
Many thanks for your help,

Lorraine

Do you have an age for Charles on the marriage certificate. His father's name and occupation?
He could have died in another part of the country. There are a few deaths around the age of 30 between 1869 and 1876. Irene

This must be the marriage with one male missing.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

Marriages Dec 1868 (>99%)

Johnson Jane Ann St Olave 1d 35
Jolley Mary Ann St Olave 1d 35
Snowden John St Olave 1d 35

Christine

Is it you who has submitted the correction for the 1871 for Joseph and his grandparents?

Christine

I have found the birth of Joseph Charles but not the marriage of his parents so perhaps they never married. Irene
I have now found the marriage to Charles McAllister 1868.

Do you have the marriage certificate for the marriage of Mary Ann to Charles. Irene

There is a Mary A Jolly (born 1850) who is a servant on the 1871 census born Bermondsey. Marital status given as unmarried, wondered if that could be her if her and Charles had separated.

RG10 Piece:725 Folio:71 Page:23

Gail

Have spent a long time with no success on this one so I thought maybe somebody could help.

I have a Charles McAllister married to Mary Anne Jolley in 1868 with a son born in 1869. No sign of them in the 1871 census but their son, Joseph McAllister is living with Mary Anne's parents. In 1874, Mary Anne gives birth to Alice Jolley (father named as William Jolley, Merchant Seaman - suspect he isn't Jolley at all that is just to give Alice her mother's surname). In 1876, Mary Anne marries Joseph Griffin and is shown as a widow on the marriage cert. But, I can find no death ref for Charles McAllister at all. They lived in Bermondsey but I have no date of birth for Charles - all I know is that his father was also Charles. Their son Joseph died aged 2. Could Mary Anne have pretended Charles was dead when she married again? Charles profession was a Spice Grinder. Any help much appreciated.

Lorraine