Genealogy Chat

Hi all, I hope someone might be able to offer me some advice on a potential conflict of information.

I have a relative, Reuben Ovens (please see info below). Using census returns and Free BMD I think I've pieced together some of his history (I admit I haven't gone to the original birth , marriage and death certificates). However, there are three other trees on this site that have him married to someone else, a Sarah Huttlestone, not the Sarah King that I have. Nobody else seems to have any sources for the Ovens-Huttlestone liaison, and it looks as though they've got Sarah (the wife's) name from a neice that was staying with them.

This is the info I have about Reuben

This is what I know about Reuben Ovens

Born 1843 in Trowbridge, Wiltshire

1851 Census
Living with mum Harriet

1861 census
Living in Melksham with relatives

1871 census
Lodging in Deptford. Occupation miller.

1872
Reuben marries (Greenwich Sep 1872 vol1d page 1188). On Free BMD the only other person on the page is Sarah King.

1881 census
Francis R Ovens, living in Musley Hill, Ware. Occupation master baker. Living with wife Sarah
and daughters Edith L, age 2, born in Middlesex, and Sarah Annie, 8 months, born in Ware. Also present is sarah Huttlestone, niece, aged 12, born in Waltham.

1891 census
Reuben and Sarah, daughter Annie, born 1881 in Ware. Also present are step-sons William and Herbert King, from Hoddesdon

1901 census
Reuben living in Croydon, miller and baker

Sep 1908
Francis Reuben Ovens dies in Croydon, aged 66

I think it is the same Reuben Ovens all the way through, sometimes using Francis, sometimes not.

Can anyone help?

Paul

If anyone can clarify the sitaution

As you know Sarah King's age - from later censuses - have you tried to find her in earlier censuses?

Equally, have you looked for Sarah Huttlestone in earlier censuses?

Might be worth a try.

This looks like Sarah Huttlestone with her parents

1871 England Census
about Sarah Huttlestone
Name: Sarah Huttlestone
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1869
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: James
Mother's Name: Sarah A
Gender: Female
Where born: Waltham Cross, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Great Amwell
Ecclesiastical parish: Hoddesdon
Town: Hoddesdon
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Ware
Sub registration district: Hoddesdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 298
Household Members: Name Age
Amy Huttlestone 4
Fred Huttlestone 5 months
James Huttlestone 25
Sarah Huttlestone 2
Sarah A Huttlestone 23
William Huttlestone 5
William Huttlestone 26

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 1349; Folio: 97; Page: 54;

Marriage


Marriages Jun 1865 (>99%)

Back Sarah Ann Ware 3a 229
Huttlestone James Alfred Ware 3a 229
Meager Rebecca Ware 3a 229
Robinson William Ware 3a 229

You say that in 1891 stepsons in name of King are with them, could King be her 1st married name and Huttlestone her maiden name.?

Christine

It seems very possible that Sarah would have been married before as she was almost 40 when she married Reuben.

1891 England Census
about Sarah Ovens
Name: Sarah Ovens
Age: 57
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1834
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Rubin
Gender: Female
Where born: Braughing, Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: St George Hanover Square
Ecclesiastical parish: St Gabriel Fenchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub registration district: Belgrave
ED, institution, or vessel: 32
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Herbert Kings 18
William Kings 20
Annie Ovens 10
Rubin Ovens 48
Sarah Ovens 57

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 75; Folio 110; Page 21

You need to buy the marriage cert to find out.

Christine

1891
Herbert Kings Sarah abt 1873 Hoddesdon, Hertfordshire, England Stepson St George Hanover Square, London (should read 1863)
1881
Herbert King abt 1863 Hoddesdon, Hertfordshire, England Nephew Edmonton, Middlesex
1871
Herbert King William,Sarah abt 1863 Hoddesdon, Hertfordshire, England Son St Nicholas Deptford, London

So he is with his mother in 1891 and 1871

1891
Sarah Ovens Rubin abt 1834 Braughing, Hertfordshire, England Wife St George Hanover Square, London
1881
Sarah Ovens Francis R. abt 1841 Braughing, Hertfordshire, England Wife Ware, Hertfordshire
1871
Sarah King William abt 1840 Brantingham, Hertfordshire, England Wife St Nicholas Deptford, London
1861
Sarah Hatleston abt 1840 Braford, Hertfordshire, England Boarder Luton, Bedfordshire
1851
Sarah Susana Hutkeston Charles,Emma abt 1840 Braughing, Hertfordshire, England Daughter Braughing, Hertfordshire
1841
Sarah Huttlestone abt 1840 Hertfordshire, England Braughin, Hertfordshire
birth
Sarah Susanna Huttlestone 1839 Oct-Nov-Dec Bishops Stortford Essex, Hertfordshire

This is brilliant!! Thank you all so much for sharing your expertise with me - it would have taken me weeks to come up with this!

once again, many thanks

Paul

but you still really need to get the marriage cert to prove it.

Ann
Glos

Peejay.

It just shows the importance of getting marriage certs.
Census info sometimes has a mother living with the family. Dont then assume the mothers surname must be the surname of the daughter .
One of mine remarried when she was a lot older and it took me a while to realise

There are still Huttlestone's living in Ware. I know two! (though one is by marriage)

Transcription details of Sarah before her marriage to Reuben.

1841 England Census
about Sarah Huttlestone
Name: Sarah Huttlestone
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Gender: Female
Where born: Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Braughin
Hundred: Braughin
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Bishops Stortford
Sub registration district: Braughing
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Huttlestone 20 occ Baker
Emma Huttlestone 20
Sarah Huttlestone 1


Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece 434; Book: 4; Civil Parish: Braughin; County: Hertfordshire; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 25; Page: 19; Line: 25;

1851 England Census
about Sarah Susana Hutkeston
Name: Sarah Susana Hutkeston
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Charles
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Female
Where born: Braughing, Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Braughing
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration district: Bishop Stortford
Sub registration district: Sawbridgeworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 2a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 85
Household Members: Name Age
Anne Maria Hutkeston 10
Charles Hutkeston 34 occ journeymam baker
Charles George Hutkeston 8
Emma Hutkeston 31 born Hertford
James Alfred Hutkeston 5
Sarah Susana Hutkeston 11
William Henry Hutkeston 2 Mo

Charles and all the children born Braughing

Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 1706; Folio: 605; Page: 26;

1861 England Census
about Sarah Hatleston
Name: Sarah Hatleston
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Braford, Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Luton
County/Island: Bedfordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Luton
Sub registration district: Luton
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 29
Household Members: Name Age
Agnes Allen 10
Anna Maria Allen 12
Edith Allen 38
Edith Allen 1
Elizabeth Allen 18
James Allen 38
Rosa Allen 14
Sarah Allen 16
Thomas Allen 3
William H Allen 8 Mo
Caroline Burton 10
Rosehanah Emoney 22
Sarah Hatleston 21 occ, bonnet sewer

Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1012; Folio: 6; Page: 5;

1871 England Census
about Sarah King
Name: Sarah King
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: William
Gender: Female
Where born: Brantingham, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: St Nicholas Deptford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Nicholas
Town: Deptford
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Greenwich
Sub registration district: St Nicholas Deptford
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Household schedule number: 82
Household Members: Name Age
Herbert King 8
Sarah King 31
William King 33 born Billingsford, Norfolk occ Miller


Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 750; Folio: 9; Page: 13

Sarah's parents after she left home.William King (grandson) is with them in 1871

1861 England Census
about Charles Huttlestone
Name: Charles Huttlestone
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1817
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Braughin, Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Hertford St Andrew
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Hertford
Sub registration district: Hertford
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 130
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Huttlestone 44 journeyman baker
Charles G Huttlestone 17
Emma Huttlestone 38
Emma A Huttlestone 6
Walter S Huttlestone 3
William H Huttlestone 10


Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 824; Folio: 42; Page: 23

1871 England Census
about Charles Huddleston
Name: Charles Huddleston
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Emma
Gender: Male
Where born: Brangham, Hertfordshire, England
Civil Parish: Broxbourne
Ecclesiastical parish: Hoddesdon
Town: Hoddesdon
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Ware
Sub registration district: Hoddesdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 146
Household Members: Name Age
Charles Huddleston 52 baker
Emma Huddleston 51
Emma Huddleston 17
Walter Huddleston 14
99%

COBBETT Martha Ware 3a 343
EDWARDS Charles George Ware 3a 343
<<GINN Sarah Ware 3a 343
<<HUTTLESTONE Charles Ware 3a 343


1881 England Census
about Charles Huttlestone
Name: Charles Huttlestone
Age: 62
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Braughin, Hertfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Gt Amwell
County/Island: Hertfordshire
Country: England

Street address: Burford St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Baker Master Employing 2 Men

Registration district: Ware
Sub registration district: Hoddesdon
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joseph Chapman 18
Charles Huttlestone 62
Sarah Huttlestone 51 born Hoddesden
William Huttlestone 19


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 1399; Folio: 103; Page: 64;

Christine