Genealogy Chat

Help please. On 1891 census I found Robert Day born 1853 (38)limehouse with his wife & family in Newington. His wife is Ellen born 1861 Lambeth.(30)

I found him again in 1901 aged(49) but his wife is now Elizabeth C day (41) born blackfriars. His occupation in both is Cooper and the 2 children with him in 1901 are also with him in 1891.

I cannot find Ellens Death or any marriage to Elizabeth. Perhaps I have missed them . Can anyone help me to solve this mystery???


Kathy

Are there any extra kids since the 1891 and how old are they/where born. There are a number of Ellen Day deaths on freebmd - have you discounted them all?

1891 for reference:

Name: Ellen Day
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1861
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Robert
Gender: Female
Where born: Lambeth, London, England

Civil Parish: Trinity Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: Walworth St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Trinity Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Alice A Day 9
Clare E Day 4
Ellen Day 30
Robert Day 38
Robert J Day 7
Rosina E Day 12

1901 England Census
about Robert Day
Name: Robert Day
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth C
Gender: Male
Where born: Limehouse

Civil Parish: Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: St Peter, Walworth
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 328
Household Members: Name Age
Alice A Day 19
Elizabeth C Day 41
Robert Day 49
Robert T Day 19

Blossom & Jim thanks for posting the census details. As you can see no new children but a new wife. It would be good to find the marriage for Robert an Elizabeth C must be between 1891 and 1901 but I cannot find it.

Just looking for him
birth
Robert Day 1853 Jan-Feb-Mar Stepney (To 1921) London, Middlesex
1861
Robert Day James,Elizabeth abt 1853 Simchouse, Middlesex, England Son Southwark St Saviour,
1871
Robert Day abt 1853 Limehouse, Middlesex, England Lodger Neithrop, Oxfordshire
1881
Albert Day[Robert Day] Ellen abt 1852 Limehouse, Middlesex, England Head Neithrop, Oxfordshire

Cannot see marriage.

do you have any birth certs for the children?

there is this marraige of robert day st giles to a elizabeth charlotte fish 1882 mar quarter

Is this the original marriage? Do you have the birth cert of any of the kids? Ellen would have been very young

Sept 1877

Dawe Emma Lambeth 1d 533
Day Robert Lambeth 1d 533
Gillard George Lambeth 1d 533
Lee Ellen Lambeth 1d 533

think this is Alice a from the 1891 census
the image does say Lewisham however the folio and page tie up with St Saviour Southwark , the image is typed but think its a mis typed record

Births Mar 1882

Day Alice Annie Lewisham 1d 116

that cert will give her mums name so may help to establish things

what relation was rosina e day born 1878 on 1891 census to robert?

Rosina birth

Births Jun 1878

Day Rosina Ellen St. Saviour 1d 66
--------------------------------------------------------
Now she looks to be the first born and her second name is Ellen maybe after Mum??

It says daughter.

Interesting, 2 of the kids born in Oxfordshire, Banbury.(Clair and Alice, so the above Lewisham birth isnt correct unless they have got the kids birth places mixed up?)So they could possibly be in oxon for the 1881. Or is she a second wife?


Births Jun 1881--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DAY Alice Ada Banbury 3a 851


1891
Name: Alice A Day
Age: 9
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Robert
Mother's Name: Ellen
Gender: Female
Where born: Banbury, Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Trinity Newington
Ecclesiastical parish: Walworth St John
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub registration district: Trinity Newington
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page

Hmm. on the 1881 we seem to have someone else having made a correction: And they are in Banbury, as thought: kids names slightly different which threw us

Name: Albert Day (The image definitely says Robert)
[Robert Day]
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ellen
Gender: Male
Where born: Limehouse, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: Neithrop
County/Island: Oxfordshire
Country: England

Street address: 24 Lower Cherwell St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Cooper

Registration district: Banbury
Sub registration district: Banbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Albert Day 29
Clara Elizabeth Day 1
Ellen Day 27
Rosa Ellen Day 2


Ellen clearly 27 on this one, I think the other with her much younger is a mistake.

Sorry everyone I have been so busy this week I have not had a chance to check my mail.

Ellen Lee and Robert Day were my great grandparents. My grandmother was clara Day and she was born in banbury oxfordhsire although her family were all from London. Robert, his father and his brothers were all coopers by trade and I think they went to neithrop in oxfordshire for their work.
Robert and his family returne to London but on of his brothers remained in Neithrop.
Clara's mother was Ellen Lee and she is still listed on 1891 census as the wife of Robert. By 1901 his wife is Elizabeth c and 2 of Ellens children are living with Robert and Elizabeth. Occupation for Robert Cooper and his 19year old son is also a cooper so I know its the same Robert Day.

The 1877 marriage is the correct one The 1891 census is wrong for her birth date which was 1854 she was 36 not 30in 1891. So she was 23 when she married Robert.
Alice was my grans sister. She was a witness to her marriage and her mother was Ellen. Rosina was another sister to my gran Clara all were Robert and Ellens daughters.


Robert was still married to Ellen in 1891 so the 1882 marriage to Elizabeth charlotte Fish could not have been him unless he was a bigamist.
I cannot find the death for Ellen between 1891 and 1901 and since Roberts children were living with Robert and Elizabeth in1901 I would think their mother was dead and not just cast aside for another woman.

Any help with Ellens death would be appreciated.

I would like to thank everyone for their efforts so far

kathy

Just wondering - if they couldn't afford a divorce, some people apparently used to just separate, agree between themselves that they no longer considered themselves married to each other. Could they have done that? ie. Ellen may still be alive but no longer as his wife.

Other thing that springs to mind - if Ellen had left him for another man (I will call him Mr. Jones as an example), Robert might have insisted he kept the children instead of letting them go with her. (And if this happened, technically Ellen can't remarry without committing bigamy but can describe herself as the wife of Mr. Jones.

Or - third possibility - Ellen is a mistranscription (not by Ancestry but by whoever copied the original records).

Kate

I take you points. Elizabeth C seems pretty clear and the ages are different Ellen would have been 46 in 1901 and Elizabeth was 41. I suppose Ellen could have gone off with another man I will look for Ellen by her age and place of birth to see if she is with someone else. I think it likely that she died and her death has been wrongly transcribed .

Thanks for the thoughts sometimes it helps to get other ideas as you tend to be fixed on what you think you know.

Everyones help has been much appreciated.

Kathy

it might be best to get the oldest birth cert..

i believe that was rosina and to check her mothers name on there......he could have married twice

Rosina was the Daughter of Ellen Lee and Robert Day. If he married again it would be after Ellen not before. Elizabeth first appears in 1901 and Ellen is on all the previous census returns.

Kathy