Genealogy Chat

In trying to find any links to my late father-in-law (orphaned age 8, brought up by unknown relatives) I have gone back to his mother's siblings and brought them forward, hope that makes sense.

I was thrilled to find the right cousin and obtain his birth certificate and then in trawling the indexes his death certificate. And herein lies my headache. I can't find Doris.

This is what I have:

Arthur James Garrard b.1910 Edmonton (got his birth certificate & he's got the right parent, ie Arthur Perry Garrard (brother of husband's gran).

Found the death entry for Arthur J - in 1979 (died Enfield) and ordered the certificate. Informant is Doris Garrard - widow of deceased. I thought I would be able to find a marriage for Arthur and Doris, get her maiden name, look up children on the birth registers and bingo I'd have some second cousins for my hubby and maybe even a living relative who could shed some light on this elusive family.

But I've trawled each and every quarter from 1926 (Arthur would be 16) to 1979 (when he died) and there are no marriages to Doris. I did find 4 x marriages for Arthur J but each time his bride wasn't a Doris.

Doris definitely existed - she's still listed in the London phone book at the address on Arthur J's death certificate, 5 years later.

I can see there are 2 deaths for Doris Garrard (no middle name to help) in 1997 - one Devon, one Cornwall but if I order the certificates will it actually tell me if she was the widow of Arthur J or will it just say widow?? Because all I know is that she called herself Doris Garrard.

Sorry, I'm rattling on a bit. I feel it unlikely they married anywhere other than England - although Doris could have come from anywhere - probably more likely they didn't marry?

Thoughts anyone - oh and I'm off to sleep on it so if anyone replies please don't think me ignorant, I'll check the thread tomorrow!!

Thanks for reading this far and good night!

Bridie

Hi Bridie

Are you sure Doris was the Wife of Arthur, as there is this Birth for a Doris Garrard:

Births Jun 1914 (>99%)
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GARRARD Doris Carter Edmonton 3a 1463

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Regards
Linda

On Arthur's death certificate informant is Doris Garrard (widow of deceased) so I took that to be his wife!

Any chance she married under Beatrice. This death is the correct area.


Name: Doris Beatrice Garrard
Birth Date: 19 Feb 1920
Death Registration Month/Year: Feb 1988
Age at death (estimated): 68
Registration district: Enfield
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 12
Page: 425

Rose

Thank you Portland Rose. I dismissed this one initially because of the middle name of Beatrice although everything else fits. Might order it with a few reference checks.
I suppose people will miss out middle names etc. if they don't like them.

Definitely off to bed now though!

For the record the spouse names I found marrying Arthur J Garrard were:

1932 Florence E Crabtree (Lambeth)
1937 Elizabeth A Attwood (Finsbury)
1954 Florrie K Richardson (Ipswich)
1968 Pauline Dodds (Manchester)

The first 2 are possible first wives??? But no Doris, or Beatrice for that matter!

Is there a chance you missed it? You need make sure you get at least one page returned for every quarter for every year on Ancestry. If there's a handwritten amendment at the bottom of the page, it messes up the alphabetical listing of the surnames.

Rose

Here's another sibling:

Births Sep 1913
Garrard George F Farmer Edmonton 3a 1317


England & Wales, Death Index: 1984-2005
about George Frederick Garrard
Name: George Frederick Garrard
Birth Date: 22 Jul 1913
Death Registration Month/Year: Sep 1985
Age at death (estimated): 72
Registration district: Enfield
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 12
Page: 387

Rose

Is there a chance I missed it - well I am human and I only looked at Arthur J marriages, not plain Arthurs. Where I don't get 4 quarters come up in a year I change a letter in the surname, so Garrard to Garrerd and then tab back on the page so I've looked at every single relevant quarter (took me hours over several days). I've also checked the bottom of the pages for handwritten additions. I'm happy I've been as thorough as possible and I did it without a glass of wine to hand too!
I have a couple of Arthurs' siblings noted but started with Arthur as he's mentioned in a letter I have from about 1941 so I thought he'd be a better bet. Maybe I should return to the indexes and look at the plain Arthurs?!
Also I hate giving up on someone - now I know Doris existed I want to know about her - another jigsaw piece unfinished as it were.

thanks for your input - it is appreciated

If you check the previous years' electoral lists for the address shown on the death certificate, you might find that at some point Doris had a second name shown

Gwyn

A few months ago I registered my mum's death. I told the registrar my name as I'm known by too. Mum was a widow, my dad having died some years earlier. I don't have a copy of the certificate to hand and I can't remember if it states on the certificate she was a widow or the widow of my dad?

Does anyone have a widow's death certificate to hand they could check this for me please? If it says widow of (name) then the 2 plain Doris Garrard deaths in Devon/Cornwall might be worth ordering certificates for with this as a reference check. Or Doris Beatrice Garrard in Enfield for that matter!

Off to bed soon - Garrard headache threatening!

That's a good idea Gwyn - it might help prove it one way or another. But would I have to go to Enfield? Not so easy from 200 miles away with a full time job and 2 children!

Have you contacted all the people on here with Garrards born Enfield/Edmonton? Looks like he and his brother stayed in the area.

Rose

What a brilliant suggestion Portland Rose - and sorry for the slow response - I've been away. I have just fired off friendly informative messages to about 20 people on here with Garrards born in Edmonton, Enfield (and Islington for good measure), so let's see what these generate!

Thank you, thank you, thank you Portland Rose.

Have hit gold - had a message today from Arthur & Doris's son, so now I have that piece of the jigsaw fitted!

Bridie

Great news Bridie.

Did you find out when they married and when Doris was born?

Rose

She's the Doris Beatrice Garrard you found - but I don't know when they married or even what her maiden name was, yet!

Three and a half years I've been looking for a link to this side of the family and although I knew plenty, without the suggestion to message everyone on here with a few details, I'd still be searching.

Exciting isn't it!!

Thank you again.

Bridie