Genealogy Chat

This concerns my Maternal GT Grandmother Fanny AKA Annie Barnwell b 1853 Stretton on Dunsmore Warwickshire, she was married twice.

Her first husband was Edmund Thompson b 1850 Long Lawford Warwickshire married 1871, they had one son William b 1877

Her second husband was Richard Pavier b Oxfordshire 1852, married Basford Nottingham 1880.

I have today received both marriage certs, and i find that on both certs. she gives her maiden name of Barnwell, i can understand this being so for her first marriage but surprised to it on the second, or did this happen in some circumstances.
I have not as yet find any death record for her first husband, unless it was a divorce.I am sure i have the correct people as all the info i have follows through quite nicely, but i realse its quite easy to pick up the wrong people.

Any help suggestions etc most welcome



This is the family in 1901 and as you can see her son from the first marriage is living with them, in 1881 he is living with Fanny's parents
Name: Richard Pavier
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1854
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Oxfordshire, England

Civil Parish: Nottingham
Ecclesiastical parish: Bulwell St Mary
Town: Nottingham
County/Island: Nottinghamshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Nottingham
Sub registration district: Bulwell
ED, institution, or vessel: 35
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 41
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Pavier 45
Annie Pavier 10
Charles Pavier 4
Frederick Pavier 13
George Pavier 16
Richard Pavier 47
Samuel Pavier 19
William Thompson 24
William Thompson 1


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Source Citation: Class: RG13; Piece: 3191; Folio: 69; Page: 7.

Source Information:

George, her maiden name was Barnwell, on the second marriage, I would have expected to see Barnwell, formerly Thompson or words to that effect.

What was her marital condition on the second marriage? Has she disclosed the fact she was widowed/divorced etc?

Were the father's name and occupation identical on both certs?

Normally, a woman re-marries using her married surname, with only the father's name to indicate what her maiden name had been.........

But, as with most things in life......there are exceptions

For your consideration
birth
Edmund Thompson 1852 Jul-Aug-Sep Rugby Leicestershire, Northamptonshire, Warwickshire

1861
Edmund Thompson William,
Elizabeth abt 1853 Long Lawford, Warwickshire, England Son Long Lawford, Warwickshire

marriage certs
Names of Bride and Groom
Column two is the name and surname of the bride and groom at the date of the marriage. Those last 6 words are crucial - the name used at the date of marriage is not necessarily the one on the birth certificate of the bride or groom. These days the words "Name changed by Deed Poll" or "formerly known as ................." or "otherwise" indicate that the bride or groom has changed their name since birth but that is a fairly recent phenomenon. In the past, the bride or groom were simply asked for the names they were known by. Remember that it was not necessary to produce any proof of the use of a name.

Names were changed in all sorts of ways. One of the most common would be by the bride or groom using a stepfathers surname. Or a person might use a mothers maiden name or indeed a name chosen at random because they didn't like the one they were born with or because they wanted their original identity hidden for a variety of reasons.

First names also frequently changed - the child named Albert Henry is always known as James for some reason and that is the name he marries in.

In theory it should be possible to use the column showing fathers name and surname as a guide to the original surname of the bride or groom but fathers details too are not always accurate.

from http://home.clara.net/dixons/Certificates/marriages.htm

Roy

Keith no other words but it does state "Spinster" so thats a problem.

Ericthered
Names of father and occupation the same.

But i have just checked with one of the witness names on the first marriage, and it is Fanny's sister I will have to look deeper at the second cert, witnesses.

Thanks for your help on this

If she described herself as "Spinster" on the second marriage certificate and you can't find a death for the first husband it could be that the second marriage was bigamous. Lots of people split up with spouses in those days and just went on to marry again without bothering to get divorced because it was so expensive and difficult to get.

If she described herself as widowed, I think she would have to produce her husband's death certificate, and she would almost certainly have used her first married name.

Since her Thompson offspring seem to be living with new husband, it seems unlikely that he didn't know she had been married before.

Kath. x

Roy
That makes interesting reading, it makes me wonder if she did want to be known by her maiden name, and not Thompson

Thanks Jim for your input on this

Many thanks George

Kathleen
Thats a very interesting point, i dont suppose i will ever find out if that was the case, nevertheless it will make nice notes to attach to her.
I keep finding more rogues in my family, but very interesting.

Many thanks for your help much appreciated