Genealogy Chat

Ok I have now found my original marriage certificate (given to us by the vicar in the church on our wedding day). It has all our signatures on it - mine hubbies and 2 witnesses.

Glen - No I dont think you have hijacked the thread lol
And I wish I did have ancestors in Lincs, well I do have have 1 or 2 or passed through there for a while, it would be nearer for me to do the research. Not than I am in Lincs but it is nearer to me than where the majority of my family was.

It has been good to hear the conflicting thoughts on the issue.

I have my parents' marriage cert which shows their signatures.

I've found several marriage certs on the Cityark site (Medway's on line) they show the original signatures as they are copied from the original registers. Blots and all!

Not all register offices have the facilities to send copies, so I have been told.

I have some scanned certificates with original signatures ...... just lifting down heavy folder of certificates .... ie a marriage in 1841, Little Glemham, Suffolk.

J

Apologies for hijacking the thread to an extent.

Adding the links to the guide and the marriage cert are the only way i can think to show that there are differences.

As they are from original transcripts (and have less potential for transcription errors) and show the signatures makes them more personal for me.

Perhaps you should adopt some Lincolnshire rellies (or play hardball with local register offices!!)

Glen

Glen, this is the sort of thing I would expect to see as an original copy. The sigs are in different hands so unless they tried to forge their signatures......!

Glen

Sorry about my miss - use of the term GRO (I did add the word local to avoid confusion) please delete the G if it helps.I think most of us understand the difference, so no matter.

Added to my photobucket site is a cropped copy of the section of the locally issued marriage cert, it's easy to see that the signatures are different to the entries made by the registrar.

If the link posted goes to a small image click the image for a larger version

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m146/glenintinselknickers/cert%20demo%20shot/Croppedsignatures.jpg

All I know is that all the ones that I have ordered from the GRO look as though they are hand written (signatures/names look in the same hand) I have been led to believe over the last few years of reading peoples threads on here and over at FTF that I would probably get original photo copies with proper signatures from the local Register Office.
But as I said even if I dont get the signatures I would at least like the copy to be in the hand of the original registra rather than the registra of today.

My wed cert is not where I thought it should be, will have to look for it now.

Peter

There is no such thing as the local GRO

It's either a local register office (who hold the original register, which does have the original signatures and can be copied onto a certificate and issued as a copy certificate)

Or it's the General Register Office (GRO) who hold transcribed copies of transcribed records issued from the local registrar.

If you care to look at the link i posted above you can plainly see that there are differences between local and GRO issued certificates. An extract of a locally issued death certificate shows quite obvious differences in the letter "L" written by the registrar and the signature given by the informant.

Although not shown in the examples the marriage certs from Lincoln also quite clearly show original signatures, comparing them to the name entries for the couple elsewhere on the certificate show they are written by different hands.

It is ONLY a local registrar who can supply a copy of the original register (there is only one original register) in the form of a certificate.
Once a marriage register is full it has to be deposited with the registrar as they are legally obliged to preserve the documents, not the records office.

As far as I am aware no certificate, whenever issued will ever contain an actual signature, even the original certificate is only ever a copy of the register.

The only document which might contain actual signatures, is the original register, which in the case of say a church wedding would be held in the church safe, until such time when the book is full or the church ceases to perform marriages, when it would be transferred to the local records archive.

I don't think that the local GRO even get to see the original, only a copy as advised by the official presiding at the wedding.

For births and death again, I don't think there is ever any copy of a signature held at the local GRO.

So, which ever version you get all it will ever be is a copy in the hand of the registrars clerk at the time, whether it be a scan of a long since deceased official or from the pen of a modern miss, or in some cases, typewritten.

I get scans via Lincoln, i sent for my original birth cert (i'm adopted) and the true/original signature of my birth mother appears on it, It matches with the letters in my adoption file and other documents so i can verify it is original as far as possible.

If anyone is confused about what may/may not be a scanned cert then looking at the visual i did on FTF might answer a query or two.
There are partial extracts of locally issued scanned and handwritten certs as well as GRO variants.

http://www.familytreeforum.com/wiki/index.php/BMD_Certificates

If any of you are married, and have your certs.........dig them out.

You will not see your signatures on them.

Joan, Thats why there were no marriages ordered in this batch. I have already got their marriages from Parish records.

I shouldnt of put in my initial message that it was because I wanted to see the signatures - I do, but most of all I want the most primary source possible for my research.

Thats exactly what I thought Glen. They are taken from the original Registers of when the birth/Death/ Marriage was registered and so would have the original signatures on them. Exactly the same as the marriages that you see in the Parish registers in the records offices.

Technically what we call certificates isn't quite right, but nonetheless the term is used on the documents themselves that we recieve from either the local office or the GRO...... "Warning a certifcate is not evidence of identity".
To be exact we should call them copies of the register but the usual term used by researchers and registrars is certificate.

GRO issued documents will have something along the lines of;

CERTIFIED to be a true copy of an entry in the certified copy of a Register of Births in the District above mentioned.

Local issued versions will say;

Certified to be a true copy of an entry in a register in my custody.


.

I have my original marriage certificate and the originals of my childrens birth certificates none of them contain my handwriting because that is contained in the volumes held by Southampton Registrar.

I know all the marriage ones are in the exact same format as I have seen numerous ones in the records offices. So I would presume the births & Deaths would be too.

Jim please explain further?
Where do they get the information from then?

Yes one I got from a local office was disappointingly written in the hand of a young woman - Id hoped for a photocopy of the original, means so much more and as you say, less chance of further errors creeping in.