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Hi
I have a baptism 1792 which says briefly
Alexander Stephen & Janet Dickie had a daughter Elizabeth baptised.
Do I assume that Alexander and Janet were married or could Elizabeth be illegitimate. I have never found a marriage for Alexander & Janet and Janet on the 1841 census was listed as Janet Dickie.
Thanks any advice welcome.
Pat
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Joan
I saw that marriage 1791 but as it was submitted I just thought someone had assumed they got married the year before Elizabeth's birth.
Janet is by herself on the 1841 census at Old Balgowan Keig aberdeenshire. She died in 1847 (just my luck before the records started in 1855) and is buried in Keig new cemetery.
I don't know anything about Alexander Stephen.
I did do a search for a later marriage but couldn't understand why she was still on the 1841 as Dickie.
This made me think that Elizabeth was maybe illegitimate.
On Elizabeth's OPR baptism both Alexander and Janet have the address as Upper Glenton which I believe was either a large farm or very small hamlet.
Thank you for your help anyway.
Regards
Pat
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Hi Pat
Just to add to the confusion, Scottish women do sometimes use their maiden names in some circumstances; even today you often see in the obit column 'Joan Smith wife of Fred Jones.' And it is often the same on gravestones, so maybe she just used it sometimes. You would probably need to check the original parish records to get a decisive answer as to whether Janet and Alexander married or not.
All the best
Jane
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Hi Joan
Ah, that makes sense with so many folk having similar names; I hadn't noticed the difference of the use of nee between the two countries.
All the best
Jane
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I disagree with Joan - how do you know she's STILL using her MS rather than REVERTED to using her MS following either death of Alex or breakdown of marriage. Incidentally, there is no other record of Keig marriage for Alex. The LDS submitted record does rather look like wishful thinking, as no specific date is given.
It doesn't look like there's a gap in the OPRs (although the burial records are in the typical non-existant state for most of the time).
Parish registers for Keig, 1750-1854
Microfilm of O.P.R. ms. no. 205 in the New Register House, Edinburgh.
Vol.. 1. Baptisms, 1750-1820, marriages, 1753-1820. v. 2. Baptisms, 1820-1854, marriages, 1820-1854. Burials, 1753-1774. FHL BRITISH Film 993193
I forget where the 1855-1875 extracts come from - the GRO(S) index, I think. There's only one Keig extract for a John Gerard birth - 1868, s/o George + Margaret Gerard MS Marshall - there's also an extract for their 1865 marr, but they're buried together under their birth names in New Keig Cemetery.
http://www.abdnet.co.uk/mi-index/
(You can also buy a booklet with all the Keig MIs from this site.)
The baptismal entry sounds to me like a fairly typical legitimate birth - pity it doesn't characterize their daughter as lawful - check the OPR to see what's said for an illegitimate one - you shouldn't have to look too far, since we're in ABD. You can rent the Keig OPR film thru the LDS and go down to the local FHC and view it on their reader, and print/photo copies (with a small donation).
Regarding the gravestone, have you obtained the inscription - assuming the Gerrards she's buried with are rellies, knowing how they're related would give you an opportunity to take an alternative route to further tracing. That she's buried as a Dickie was perfectly normal at this time in this area - I'm sure there must be an exception somewhere, but I've never found one.
In the 1841, Janet at Old Balgowan is preceeded by Cardensbrae, and followed by Pittendrich and Airly.
There are photos of all the neighbours online (but only them):
http://www.geograph.org.uk/browse.php?p=738334
http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=3963047
http://www.geograph.org.uk/browse.php?p=737434
I looked at Old Balgowan (OS grid= 361100, 820300) at:
http://www.old-maps.co.uk/
There's only 2 zoomable maps - 1870, 1901 and they show Old Balgowan losing half its buildings - I'm thinking the place was pretty run-down - in 1841, there's only a 77 y o woman living there.
Until 2006, the minimum legal requirements for a valid marriage were zero licenced preachers, zero licenced places of marriage and zero witnesses. Marriages not conducted by a preacher were termed irregular and, after civil registration became compulsory and you'ld partaken of an irregular marriage, you were supposed to go to the sheriff's court and swear you were married, and get a warrant to that effect, and register that, a procedure that was rarely followed. I've never seen any figures on the fraction of regular marriages, but if neither of you liked any of the churches in your area, having your family and friends gaather of a Friday evening at the bride's house for a wedding seems quite a sensible way of proceeding - I don't see why the state has to meddle in private matters. Well, back off the soapbox, I wouldn't say your inability to find a marriage entry in an OPR was any definitive proof that they weren't married, and if Eliz's bp entry is exactly as stated, I'ld be inclined to view them as married.
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I don't know if this helps any or maybe makes it even more confusing but there is a birth on Scotlands People as below. She was born Elizabeth Stephen!!! parents Alexander Stephen and Janet Dickie.
Betty
No Date Surname Forename Parent Names/Frame No. Sex Parish City/County GROS Data Image Extract
1 04/11/1792 STEPHEN ELIZABETH ALEXR. STEPHEN/JANET DICKIE F Keig /ABERDEEN 205/ 0010 0093 VIEW (5 CREDITS) ORDER
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Betty - No confusion - this is the baptismal record referred to in the initial post.
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Thank you all for your replies it has certainly given me loads to think about.
I have visited the grave of Janet Dickie died 1847 at Keig the John Gerrard with her is her grandson. Haven't yet found the info on Janet Gerrard (it says Neice died 1846). Just wondered if she was possibly the neice of Elizabeth Stephen who married James Gerrard.
Old Balgowan was mentioned in the 1800's as having 77 acres of woodland. The last private owner who died 1824/1925 left it to the Catholic church. It was advertised for this year at about one million pounds.
Last year I was fortunate to be able to visit it (invited by the tenant and trecked through the barley fields to the old house. It was a ruin and covered in shrubs etc but the walls were incredibly thick.
I shall proceed to look through all the info you have so kindly spent time (what stars you are) researching for me and see if it leads me anywhere.
Thank you all agin so very very much.
Pat
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Until the 1940's in Scotland a couple could marry 'by declaration'. All they had to do was declare in front of 2 witnesses that they were man and wife. This was often used in the countryside, and by travelling folk, when access to a preacher was difficult. They were supposed to register the marriage at the earliest time possible but many never bothered. This especially occured before the turn of the 20th century.
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