Genealogy Chat

What a good idea Von - where do I start looking for school records? There is a web site for local history for the area - it has census records and stuff but nothing about schools. Any ideas?

Also with regard to recording of ages Bilbo - you are right but I hadn't seen it that way. I have instances where the wives start off being the same age as the their husband and end up actually being older!

Thanks everyone for your help.

Gai

Towards the latter half of the 1800's it was becoming increasingly common for girls to be literate, whilst boys were not, as they were sent to work rather than to school.

This was why it was quite common for the teenage girl to be given the job of filling out the census return. So, look out for Grandmother being the Head of the families mother'

Following on from this, remember that people were very proud too. In many cases the bride, although being perfectly literate would sign with an X so as not to show up her husband who could not write at all.

There is a similar problem with ages. In certain areas it was frowned upon if the bride was older than her husband. Hence white lies about ages. Problem is with later censuses they can't remember what they admitted previously, hence the +- 2 years or even more that is sometimes seen.

My great grandfather made his mark on his first marriage certificate in 1881. When he married again after his first wife died, in 1908, he signed his name.

I was told that sometimes the vicars told them to make their mark, as it was quicker than getting them to sign, and they wanted to hurry up the proceedings.

No doubt to go and have a snifter of the communion wine!

Mo

Thanks everyone. I did wonder if the parish clerk might have been an enumerator - the enumerator for the village was, in both censuses, one of the Farmers but not the main land owner. I think you are right about the cost of schooling as well. I've also realised that the father was born in London but married and had his family in the village so I suppose that may have some bearing on whether his son's were schooled.

Anyway - it's an interesting social factor which just makes you think how lucky we all are these days especially as I'm just about to send my daughter to Uni (first in the family!)

Gai

Good point there, Janet. I think I read somewhere that some schools charged around a penny a day and I'm sure that, for parents with large families, they would much rather have had a child out working (and probably bringing more than a penny home each day) than going to school and costing a penny a day, plus food and clothing.

And as you say, if it was an agricultural area, they probably saw no point in having their children educated because, after school, they wouldn't use their education and would just be manual workers.

I have found some instances where the girls in a family were able to write their names but their brothers just put a cross on marriage records etc, but I have also compared other marriage records and found groups of siblings unable to write.

Just occurred to me, in an agricultural area he may have worked as an enumerator for the 1861.

I would have expected a parish clerk to have the rudiments of writing at least. I guess if his children where destined to be Ag labs though the parents wouldn't have bothered with sending them to school. Most schools did charge a fee in those days.

Hi Gai,

This is what I found on the net

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/parish+clerk

parish clerk
Noun
a person who assists in various church duties

And from Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Town_clerk

But check the parish clerk part:

"and in parishes is the Parish Clerk, usually an unsalaried part-time volunteer whose main responsibility is the administration and minuting of parish council meetings."

I think it is similar to a church warden these days.

Thanks Ryan. I had assumed that a Parish Clerk would have been able to read and write but as they were also ag labs and some of the other family were gardeners I wondered if the job was more of a "caretaker" in those days. Most of this family - son's, wives etc have all "made their mark" on the certificates that I have got. Of course, as the generations go on, this is less common as you say. I wonder what others think?

Gai

Gai, if the son was not educated then the parents probably were'nt either. But I have came across this case differently, the son could read and write but the parents could'nt, but in another case, the daughter could'nt and the mother recorded her mark on the daughter's birth certificate.

Just thought I would let you know my cases...

Ryan

I have found one of my ancestors in 1851 onwards living in a small village in Bedfordshire. He was an agricultural labourer and also a "Parish Clerk". Does anyone know what that would entail? Would he, for example, have to be able to read and write? I ask because his son "made his mark" on his marriage certificate and I thought it unusual for a son to be illiterate if the father wasn't. Was it unusual in the mid to late 1800's for those who worked the land and farms to be literate?

All opinions valued and appreciated of course! Thanks. Gai.