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Hi Joan
Sorry - delayed response as I lost internet access for a few days!
Thanks for the ref for the orphanage - I found it but they are not there- didn't really expect them to be as I'm sure they are well concealed somewhere!! But you live in hope....
There are several large establishments enumerated separately under the Bradford enumeration districts and I have trawled them all (including the Horton Workhouse) for my Grt Grandmother but she isn't there unless they changed her surname completely!
Like you I am at a distance so I would be really interested in what your friend finds in their research about burials in relation to the Horton Workhouse if you don't mind sharing it.
Many thanks for your input so far
Julie
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Joan thanks that's really helpful!
Do you have the 1901 census ref for that orphanage? I have searched and searched for those children in 1901 but cannot find them.
(Their mother also gave birth to a baby girl in Dec 1900 & the baby died 12 days later in Jan 1901-birth & death registered by the workhouse master. So she was in the workhouse before the 1901 census and ultimately died there the following year but can't find her there or anywhere else in 1901!!)
I believe there were 'cottage homes' -ordinary house in ordinary streets-as well as larger orphanages, but despite extensive searching I've found nothing!
Thanks for your help-must to bed-will catch up tomorrow.
Julie
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Hi Sylvia
Yes I have been re-iterating that point to my mum ever since I told her it was 'the workhouse' infirmary. But I do think my grt aunt had a problem with it and lived in dread of the workhouse. It was discussed but never in relation to her mother.
I understand there were cottage hospitals around at the time, some of them founded by charities, but they tended to specialise in specific conditions. I believe there were also sanatoriums specifically for TB but maybe they were only for those that could pay??
Julie
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Julie
don't forget that in many places, the infirmary in the workhouse was the ONLY hospital that most people could attend .... either because of cost or accessibility.
so it might not have meant that much to your great aunt that her mother was in the workhouse infirmary 'cos that was where everyone she knew went.
Free accessiblity to hospitals really only came about after National Health was started around 1948. My brother was very sick with heart problems for about 6 months about 1945 ................. my parents owed the doctor for his treatment for years. What we called "the doctor's man" came round once every week to collect a small sum towards that debt. I remember him coming round well into the 1950s, and marking the sum paid in his little black book!
sylvia
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Thanks for re-posting Joan and thanks Sylvia too.
Joan what records did you find that indicated a minister officiated at the burial? Just wondering whether I should seek workhouse records first or church/cemetery records.
It's a sad story. My Great Grandmother died of TB in the Bradford Union Horton Workhouse in 1902. Her daughter (my great aunt) was 12 years old and had been visiting her mother 'in hospital' (she must have known it was the workhouse infirmary but never admitted it). One day she went to visit and was told her mother had died and was already buried in a 'paupers' grave. At the time my great aunt and her brother (my grandfather) aged 5 were living in a children's home. (Don't know what my grt grandfather was up to but he wasn't far away according to the death cert). What a dreadful situation for a child...............................
Anyway, they were RC and my mum (who was my great aunt's confidante and has filled me in on as much detail as she can remember) feels very sad that her grandmother may be buried in what, as you say, amounts to a 'dumping ground'. I believe there was a RC cemetery nearby so I could look into that. The max time they could have lived in Bradford is 3 years as they were in Halifax in 1898 so Bradford wasn't a long standing place of residence for them, they may have even moved around a fair bit in Bradford & therefore not be attached to any particular church.
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as I once understood it, unconsecrated ground was that any ground outside the churchyard, and it was where suicides were buried ........ as they had died without being shriven, they could not be buried in consecrated ground.
Unfortunately, this also meant that stillborn babies were sometimes buried in unconsecrated ground .............. fortunately ANYONE could baptize a baby in an emergency, so midwives would sometimes declare that the baby had taken a breath and do a quick baptism!
As regards Julie's original question ........ I would think by 1902 that more burials would be taking place in cemeteries rather than churchyards, especially in towns.
and whether an RC was buried in a RC grave would depend on whether the workhouse was aware of the religion, and whether there actually was an RC part of the cemetery.
sylvia
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Oooh Joan's post has disappeared - that's a shame as it was very informative. Has anyone else got any knowledge to add?
Many thanks
Julie
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Thank you Joan & Linda for your helpful replies. There seems to be conflicting information about the consecrated ground. Joan's post is reassuring, Linda's less so! I will have to do a bit more research.
many thanks
Julie
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I found this yesterday,so have copied it here as well
All burials took place in either consecrated or unconsecrated ground. Those buried in consecrated
ground would have been members of the Church of England. Those buried in unconsecrated ground
would have been Christians of other denominations, those of other faiths and those of none.
Most large cemeteries (as opposed to churchyards),have a separate section for non Church Of England burials. A priest from that religion ie Catholic, Methodist etc would conduct the service. If non was available the C of E vicar would do the honours, but in the non consecrated ground.
All large public cemeteries do have plans as Joan said. There is often a block of land where the public grave was, they just filled it up, then moved onto another block of land. There will be no marker of any kind, but the cemetery office will be able to tell you which block of land your ancestor is in.
Sometimes the family did claim the body back and take it for a private burial in a different cemetery. I have one where the workhouse records state that the person was buried in the specified public grave, but when I checked it out, he had been taken back to his home town by the family. In this case he was in the work house because he had dementia and as all family members had to work, looking after granddad was not an option, a bit like using a care home today, but not as pleasant I suspect.
Linda
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Does anyone know if religious creed was taken into account when someone died in the workhouse and was subsequently buried in a public (paupers) grave - for instance if they were Roman Catholic would they buried in consecrated ground? If records survive would they include details of the burial plot to be able to identify it? The burial I'm concerned with was September 1902 so hopefully burial practices would be a bit more enlightened than if it had been early 19th C.
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