Genealogy Chat

I have a great uncle b 1903 d 1926 aged 22
at the time of his death he was serving a ,,
prison sentence, where he died of phnumonia

As of yet I am not sure why he was in prison,
but I am following up

I found him in a newspaper article in 1922 aged 18
getting 12 months borstal for petty thefts
it was mentioned in the article that he had only just
been released from a previous sentence
so he had been in a good deal of trouble, and obviously
reoffended again circa 1923/4

In the summing up it states that he commenced his life
of crime in 1917 aged 13, when he was given 6 strokes
of the birch for,,,,,,,,,,stealing Rabbits

I have no idea if these rabbits were alive or dead or indeed wild,
but the punishment seems to be severe for the offence ?

Also when he got 12 months borstal, 2 younger lads with him
were sentenced to 6 strokes of the birch each,,,
to which the Magistrate states,,,,,,And you will Feel It
sounds rather sadistic really.

As any one else got similar stories

Ray

An ancestor of mine was transported to Tasmania in 1829, he served 7 years on a chain gang before getting his ticket of leave, he was then a free man in Aus - meaning he couldn't return to England but had to stay in Australia...............his crime - he and two others broke into a 'rich' man's house and stole eggs, dripping, bread, butter, and elderberry juice.

His age at the time was 17!

Hi Libby

I am very much aware of the injustice of transportation
for so much as stealing an apple or loaf of bread
how many people stole to avoid starvation ?

My great uncle was brought home for burial in a paupers
grave,,,,this was during the depression of the 1920s
He would steal to feed the family

My grandfather and his younger brother joined the British army
as in my grandfathers own words
I will be better fed in the army than I am at home
so the older brother stayed at home and got into trouble

Ray

Seems very unjust.
My gg uncle was in prison in 1851, aged 18. I thought maybe he had been caught poaching to feed his family.
Eventually I found out that he had tried to derail a train so he could steal from it! The newspaper report has him sounding like a 19th century hoodie - this is a possibility because, at the time he wasn't living at home, but seemed to be 'feral' in his home village.
The railway company used their own 'detective' to find the culprits (gg uncle and a friend)
GG uncle pleaded drunkenness in a nearby village as an alibi. (Oh Yeah! LOL)
He got 2 years - the train didn't derail, but if it had - how many people would have been killed/maimed?
This didn't seem to come into the equation when sentencing him.
Maybe the fact that his brother, in the same year, had become a metropolitan policeman went in his favour!

maggie

Thanks Maggie, for your story,
there must be some good stories to come,

Another 16 year old youth in the court case
was returned to the training ship that he had
absconded from (training ship Cornwall)
this training ship was a real ship of the
Royal Navy moored on the Thames
it was designed to get young boys ready
for a life at sea,,,,some of the boys being
sent from the courts,,,,,again the disipline
seems to be administered by the Birch

There is a reference to these training ships
on the workhouse site, even showing the
1881 census with a list of all the boys aboard.

I have a newspaper report of yet more injustice.
In 1901, a 23 year old ship's engineer (on a fishing ship) was charged with inflicting GBH on the high seas.
His crime? He tried - and finally succeeded in setting alight the ship's cook, a negro called Roberts.
"Roberts had undergone a lot of bullying from the engineer. One night when getting ready to get into his bunk, the engineer squirted trupentine on him with a syringe, then threw lighted matches at him. When this didn't set him alight, the engineer held a lighted match under Robert's shirt and set him and his clothes on fire.
Roberts was severely burned and spent over 3 months in hospital, and may never regain the full use of one of his arms."
The defence claimed it was 'horseplay'!
The engineer was sentenced to 9 months imprisonment with hard labour!!!

Doesn't seem fair when stealing a rabbit to feed the family receives a worse sentence!

This engineer has the same surname as one branch of my family. Fortunately he isn't and ancestor.

Hi Maggie

Your article shows just how lowley Coloureds were
viewed back then, treated worse than animals.

Ray

To be fair, Ray - the defence had to say something!
In other reports report the headlines include: 'Serious Charge against a Captain' and 'Revolting Cruelty at Sea'.
I 've just notice - he also threatened to cut Robert's throat if he said how the burns had been caused.
It was another memeber of the crew who came to Roberts' rescue and put the flames out with his oilskin.
It was also members of the crew who reported hime, and gave evidence against him.
I think the only person aboard the ship who thought blacks were 'lowly' was the engineer - and to be honest it seems there was a bit of the sadist in him.
I don't think racism as such existed until the 1960's when the press managed to 'excite the nation'. Class was probably more an issue before then.
My grandad lived in Southampton. His best mate Stan was black - not an odd thing in a Port town. Stan married a white girl in 1928. There seems to have been no problem. Stan's mother was 4th generation
born & bred in Southampton - more a native of Southampton than Stan's wife!

Maggie

I was refering to the miserly 9 month sentence.

Ray

LOL Ray - I think 9 months equates to the 2 years for my gg uncle got for trying to derail the train. That was, to all intents & purposes attempted murder on quite a large scale!
Seem strange that others got more for stealing a rabbit! I wonder if it depended n the area?
The attempted derailment was in Buckinghamshire - to be more precise at Cheddington - where the Great train robbery took place!
The burning was on board a Grimsby based trawler.

Hi Ray,
There is a website that i have found very helpful for the information you require.Try this website.

Good Luck

htt://vcp.e2bn.org/

On my Fathers side I have my gggrandfather the 15 year old criminal whose career started in 1848. He had just left his job as a servant and together with some 'mates' obtained a bottle of 'Jerry' as he called it from the local merchant. He told the merchant that it was for his former employer and should go on his account.

Sometime later he returned and got another bottle of sherry. That same evening, he returned again this time for beer. The merchant was suspicious (no doubt because gggreat grandad was p****d) and sent to the former employer to find out what type of beer he required.

Gggrandfather was arrested and appears to have taken some hours to sober up before being questioned. He received a whipping.

A few months later, he was in trouble again, this time he was accused of stealing a pillowcase from the landlady of his and his family's lodgings. He was found not guilty.

A few months passed and once again he and his mates were charged with stealing a frock coat from a nail outside a shop. Once again gggrandad was found not guilty.

A year later he was employed by an ironmonger. Gggrandad decided to make some extra money by stealing some screws over a period of time then selling them back to his employer as scrap. He didn't realise that they would recognise their own stock. This time he came to trial and was condemned by the judge as an unredeemable character. From the newspaper report he appeared to plead with the judge to give him any sentence but not to transport him. He was sentenced to seven years transportation at the age of 17.

Thankfully, prisoners were no longer transported for terms of less than ten years at this time so he spent his sentence in Millbank prison (where the Tate Britain is now)

He appears to have been one of the first prisoners to have benefitted from the introduction of Parole as in October 1854 he married his stepmothers sister.

On my Mothers side I have several relatives who witnessed three different crimes and gave evidence at the Old Bailey.

Hi Deborah

Thank you for the link, will have a look now
(edited) a very interesting site, thanks again

And thank you Janet for your post

Ray