Genealogy Chat

Hi all,

in 1911 my great grandfather Sydney Gannaway (b.1891, Hackney) is living with his Uncle Henry Plummer (born 1862, St Pancras) and his uncle's wife Concha (born gibralter).and also in the house is a Winifred Abbott. i have had a look at marriages fro plummer to abbott and there is one of an Ellen Plummer to George Abbott in 1895.

I have all the census for Sydney. Sydney's parents were Charles Gannaway (1850-1928) and Emily Constance Plummer (1858-1897).

I have had Emily's birth certificate for years and have only just noticed on freebmd tonight that there is also an Ellen Florence plummer reg with the same vol and page, so just checked if there is a time of birth on the certificate and there IS!

the only trouble is i can't seem to find a match for Ellen on the census'. i have the whole of the rest of the family when they are together in 1861 and 1871 census but she is not on either.

my question is can someone please find an Ellen Florence Plummer born 1858 in St Pancras in any of the census please? she would be the daughter of Henry Plummer and Ann Hopkins.

Sorry this was all a bit long-winded but felt it all needed explaining, and i am sooo excited about my great great grandmother being a twin so it may be a bit rambling in places.

will add the census i have for emily's family below.
Thank you for reading all this!
Leanne. :D

the 1861 census:

Name: Emily Plummer
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Henry
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: St Pancras, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
Town: London
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration district: Pancras
Sub registration district: Grays Inn Lane
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 10
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Plummer 37 - Chiswick, Middlesex
Ann Plummer 38 - Market Lavington, Wiltshire
Maryann Plummer 18 - Market Lavington, Wiltshire
Louisa Plummer 7 - Marylebone
Edward Plummer 5 - Marylebone
Fanny Plummer 4 - Pancras
Emily Plummer 3 -Pancras
Henry Plummer 1 - Pancras
Sophia Roberts 14
George Pile 49
Christopher Saddler 33
James Mall 36
Samuel W Searle 27

1871

Name: Emily C Plimmer
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Ann
Gender: Female
Where born: St Pancras, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image
Registration district: Pancras
Sub registration district: Gray
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 496
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Plimmer 48
Louisa Plimmer 17
Edward Plimmer 16
Fanny I Plimmer 14
Emily C Plimmer 12
Henry Plimmer 11
William Plimmer 9
Marie Notley 23
Harry Cluney 15
Edward Heess 28
Samuel W Farmer 23
Alfred A Fry 58

As you can see Henry is no longer there. he died in 1867.

1881:

Name: Emily C. Plummer
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation: Daughter
Mother's Name: Anne
Gender: Female
Where born: London Islington, London, Middlesex, England

Civil Parish: St Marys Islington
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address: 37 Westbourne Rd
Education:

Employment status: View Image
Occupation: Assistant At A Restraunt Inn

Registration district: Islington
Sub registration district: Islington West
ED, institution, or vessel: 49
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Anne Plummer 59
William Plummer 20
Emily C. Plummer 22
Margaret L. Lawrence 1


Margaret Lawrence is the daughter of Louisa Plummer and Robert Lawrence who married in 1873. Robert died 1880.

Thanks for reading, sorry it's long winded.

Leanne. :D

They didn't get muddled up with the names by any chance?

Deaths Sep 1858
Plumer Ellen Constance Marylebone 1a 299

Thanks Ozibird,

That would certainly make sense except for the 1911 census in which Henry Plummer (emily's brother) described Emily's sons as Nephews, and Winifred Abbott as Neice. I can't seem to find another Plummer/Abbott marriage but there is one of George Abbott to Ellen Plummer.

this may be a coincidence, and i could certainly beleive they may get the names mixed up so if i can't find her in census i will order that one and give it a go.

thanks Ozibird. :D

Lee.

I presume you've searched for George & Ellen in 1911. Where was Winifred born?

Ozi.

I have searched for them in 1901, but hadn't done 1911 yet. Winifred was born in Kings Cross. George and Ellen married Weymouth.

i will have a look for them now though. thank you. :)

Ozibird,

I have had a quick look on 1911 for ellen Abbott's. There is one born 1869 living in weymouth, so possibly this is the ellen who married George in 1895.

i can't seem to see an Ellen Abbott that would fit with my ellen. hmm you're probably right about that death for my one. it's possible that they got confused over names afterall.

thanks for your idea Ozibird.
Lee.

Except you've still got Winifred. Have you found her birth?

These are the Winifred Abbotts born 1904 - 1906 London/Middx. I can't find any deaths between 1904-1911 for Winifred Abbott London/Middx.

Births Mar 1904
Abbott Winifred Edith H Hendon 3a 280
Births Dec 1904
Abbott Winifred Kate Bethnal Green 1c 113
Births Mar 1905
Abbott Winifred Dora Holborn 1b 656
Births Jun 1906
Abbott Winifred Annie Lambeth 1d 362

1911
ABBOTT WINIFRED KATE F 1905 6 Poplar London

ABBOTT WINIFRED EDITH HERBERT F 1904 7 Brentford Middlesex

lol good point Ozibird!

there are a few possibilities born in 1905:


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Mar 1905 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abbott Winifred Dora Holborn 1b 656
Abbott Winifred Martha Christchurch 2b 647

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Jun 1905 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abbott Winifred Dora Sheffield 9c 631

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1905 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abbott Winifred Louise R Stoke T. 6b 395
Abbott Winifred May Dover 2a 1141

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Dec 1905 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Abbott Winifred Burnley 8e 165

I'm thinking perhaps it's the one born Holborn? and i think it must be one of Henry's sister's that is the mother as his wife was born in Gibralter and i think it likely he married her there as i cannot find a likely marriage in the UK.

Thank you again for your help on this. I was a little overtaken with the excitement of having a twin in my family earlier.

:D
Lee.

I think it would be worthwhile getting Ellen's birth cert. If for your peace of mind if nothing else. Otherwise it will worry you like a sore tooth!

Does Emily's birth cert have a time of birth on there?

Rose

Thanks for both of your replies. i think that may be the way to go Ozibird. then atleast as you say i will have that peace of mind. i could be barking up a completely wrong tree.

Rose i have had the cert for aabout 4 years, but it is just a photocopy one of my contacts sent me. I hadn't noticed the time on there until today. i saw Ellen had the same vol and page number so thought i would recheck emily's cert. it's not very clear but i think it says "twenty fourth April 1858 10.50pm 12 (Euston Place???)" the 10.50pm is very clear though.

amazed i didn't spot it before. so i beleive she must have been a twin really. But as Ozibird says the only way to get true peace of mind would be to buy Ellen's cert too.

Thank you both again. :D

Lee.

Sorry Leanne,

I missed that you mentioned the time of birth on your initial posting.

Rose

no problem Rose.
:D