Genealogy Chat

Thanks Sylvia. I hadn't thought of that possibility. Unfortunately I haven't been able to get my hands on the 1911 census entry for this couple yet as they had moved to Northumberland sometime between 1901 and 1904 and that area is not online yet. According to the blog on the 1911 site it should only be a few weeks now so I'm waiting with bated breath.

I would really love to get to the bottom of this because I just can't see how it was possible in such a short time.

Another reason why I thought it might have been his wife rather than he who was the master baker is that they had ten children and so I am sure an extra source of income from his wife would have been very useful.

Caz

Have found a distant relative in the 1841 census with the occupation of Inn Keeper. She was 22 at the time.

what does the 1911 census say?


sylvia

.............. unless HE insisted that the business be in his name???????????????



sylvia

Thanks everyone for taking an interest.

It's funny you should mention bakers and confectioners Sylvia. It is that very profession that's giving me such a headache.

My problem is with my g-g-grandfather and an apparent radical change in occupation between 1901 and 1917.

In the 1901 census the gentleman concerned is working as an ironstone miner. He is still a miner when one of his sons marries in 1904 but by 1910 he is listed in Kellys directory as the proprietor of a bakers and confectioners shop. At first I thought this was the wrong person but all the certs I have for the marriages of his children after that date refer to him as a master baker.

It seemed very odd to me he could become a master baker in such a short space of time and family stories say it was his wife who was the baker. I haven't found any evidence to support this though hence my question. I wondered if it was really his wife that was the master baker but for some reason the business had to be in his name.

From what everyone has said this now doesn't seem likely so I am going to have to dig a bit deeper. I have already tried emailing the Association of Master Bakers to ask if they have any records but to date have not received a reply from them. I think I had better try again.

Thanks again everyone for your input. I really appreciate it.
Caz x

mgnv ........................... now why you say that she wouldn't be able to qualify as a baker??


OH's family has at least 4 siblings who were "Confectioners and Bakers" from about 1870 through to the early 1900s.

Two sisters lived and worked together in Liverpool, the other sister and a brother were elsewhere in England ..................... and no, I don't believe the brother trained his sisters!

The two who lived and worked in Liverpool had nieces (different nieces each year) as apprentice confectioner and/or baker on the 1891 and 1901 censuses.



Granted they were unmarried ................................. but there is nothing that I can see that would have prevented them from continuing their profession if they had married.


You forget that many areas of England were matriachal societies ............... the women ruled!!!

There is a famous piece of social science research published in the 1960s or early 1970s on the dock workers in Liverpool ..... a rough and tough lot all of them, but all ruled at home by their wives.


It was the same in my home town ........... women ruled, and women ran businesses, even in the days before women's lib!




sylvia

I would doubt that she could qualify as a baker, whether master or journeyman. However, I've seen plenty of women operating "Refreshment Shops", i.e., cafes, on the 1901 census.

I have a couple of females who were shopkeepers in the late 1800s, and one who ran a bakery. There is also a dubious relative who was a "master? flour grinder".

I have very few women who stayed at home, most were cotton weavers or similar (being paid less than men, so more employable).

Maggie

Hi,

thanks Janet and Diddydoris that's great.

I wasn't sure as women didn't have the vote then whether there were rules regarding qualifications and business ownership.

I'm glad to hear there weren't.

Thanks again,
Caz x

My g g grandmother owned and ran a Fish and Chip Shop late 1800's early 1900's, even got herself a Hackney Carriage Licence in 1915.

Women always worked and not just in the home. Their work was often the only thing that kept the family from destitution (along with the work done by the children) It was only the upper classes who thought women should perform more genteel tasks.

However, these married womens occupations are rarely mentioned on the census. I assume this is because the tradiotional role for the man was to be the bread winner.

It isn't until the 1881 census that I have seen a few married womens occupations stated.

Hi,

does anyone know if a married woman could qualify as a master baker and own a shop in her own right in the early years of the twentieth century please?

I have tried googling this subject and from what I can see married women were expected to stay at home and raise their children. Was this their only option?

The only references I have found to women in the workplace around this time relate to women in the US.

I would be grateful for any advice you can give me on this.

Thanks,
Caz