Genealogy Chat

Thank you all for the responses.

Kathleen - Elizabeths son was Samuel George Jeffery,b1886 Dorset,Broadwinsor.This is my husband's grandfather.He died in 1974,in Australia.It was amazing how little he knew about his mum.He was only ever told she died when he was young.As to his father - well there is no fathers name on his birth certificte,only Elizabeth's maiden name.He would never comment on the subject of his father,whom he thought was Welsh and named John.Notwithstanding the lack of detail about Elizabeth,we have a photo of her.

There is a family "story" that he only found out the truth about his parentage when he saw a copy of his birth certificate,for the first time,in 1953,when he obtained a copy in order to apply for an Australian pension.
Until then,he also had no idea of the Samuel given name - he had only ever been called George.

Shirley

It is unfortunate that each state has its own system of releasing BMD data, Only one state charges for you to just have a look. All charge through the nose for certificates.

Northern Territory people must still vote or be fined, shire elections and federal elections they have to cast a vote.

We also did not count our Aboriginal people on early census. They could vote from 1967, in all states, were also then included on the census. South Australia being an exception starting with the men in1857, though there were no recorded votes, all South Australian women could vote from 1897.

I have a problem understanding our antiquated system of voting and I live here. Most are not worth voting for anyway.

Gail

Thanks for that, Gail. I'd knew the UK system of seperate rules, etc for each country was exported to the seperate colonies in North America, and there, states-provinces each do their own thing, and I'd presumed the model got exported to Aus, too, but didn't *know*.

In Canada, we had a mess of preconfederation colonial censuses, sometimes just of a city, dating back to 1666. Aboriginal peoples, naturally, were generally ignored in these. Did Aus have nothing similar, preconfederation?

On the other hand, our electoral rolls are closed. Actually, for some constituancies, it was never necessary to pre-register to vote - you just turn up with some ID. (This explains our record voter turn-out of 138% in one rural riding, although I prefer the explanation implied by the slogan "Vote Early and Vote Often".)

I must admit I'm a bit puzzled by your compulsory federal voting - how does that work for NT, when they don't get to elect anyone anyways?

In SCT, both parents (with mum's MS) of principals appear on BMDs. There are free examples online of all types at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/content/help/index.aspx?r=554&408
[All examples are substantially more legible than any I've needed.]

Thanks again.

mgnv, the system holds in New South Wales, in Queensland you also get the mothers maiden name on birth and deaths, so you do know for sure that you have the correct person. Also great for checking for siblings.

We do not have the benefit of census though, and this does make it useful for tracing family. So really it is a two way street.

Gail

Briefly, no you're not correct for the UK. The situation you describe does hold for England and Wales though. I'm not familiar with Ireland pre 1922, nor Northern Ireland, but it's certainly true that Scottish d.certs have the deceased's parents with mother's MS (when known to the informant, of course). Although it's not a legal right, in many rego offices in SCT they will let you check the register entry first.

Does the system you describe hold throughout Australia, or just in your state?

Shirley, I have also found it difficult ordering UK death certs or even birth certs for the very same reason that you have.

I now have a folder with the unconnected certs, huge waste of money as well.

We are spoilt here, and is a much easier system especially with Smith's Brown's etc.

At least the UK certs are much cheaper than ours.

Gail

The problem with multiple threads
This is her parents and child.

1891 Wales Census
about Samuel George Phillips
Name: Samuel George Phillips
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Son
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mercy
Gender: Male
Where born: Blackawton, England

Civil parish: St Andrews
Ecclesiastical parish: St Andrews
Town: St Andrews and Dinas Powis
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales

Street address: View Image
Condition as to marriage: View Image
Education: View Image
Employment status: View Image
Occupation: View Image

Registration district: Cardiff
Sub-registration district: St Nicholas
ED, institution, or vessel: 5
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
John Phillips 41
Mercy Phillips 37 (51?)
Samuel George Phillips 5
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
findmypast
PHILLIPS, Mercey 1840 51 F Cardiff Glamorganshire

What was the name of the child Elizabeth had in 1886?

Kath. x

I think this is the same Elizabeth working as a servant in the 1891 census:-

Name: Elizabeth Jeffery
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Thorncombe, Dorset, England
Civil parish: Chard
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Registration district: Chard
Sub-registration district: Chard
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age

Robert Diment 53
Louisa Diment 43
Harriett J Diment 20
Fred Diment 17
Albert E Diment 11
William W Diment 7
Robert C Diment 4
Reginald Diment 3
Tom Diment 24
Elizabeth Jeffery 23 <<<<<<<<<<

Source Citation: Class: RG12; Piece: 1893; Folio 4; Page 1; GSU roll: 6097003.

Thorncombe and Broadwinsor are quite close to each other.

This would cut down the window for her death a bit.

Kath. x

It looks as if this is the family in 1881:-

Name: Elizabeth Jeffery
Age: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Broadwinsor, Dorset, England
Civil parish: Crewkerne
County/Island: Somerset
Country: England
Street address: Pipe House
Education:

Employment status:

View Image
Occupation: Scholar
Registration district: Chard
Sub-registration district: Crewkerne
ED, institution, or vessel: 7
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age

John Phillips 37
Mary Phillips 48
Walter Jeffery 15
Elizabeth Jeffery 11

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2387; Folio: 115; Page: 17; Line: ; GSU roll: 1341574.

Kath. x

Could this be Elizabeth living with her grandmother in the 1891 census? There is a Mercy Jeffery in the family. There is also another family of Jeffery's living two doors away headed by John and Mary Jeffery:-

Name: Elizabeth Jeffery
Age: 1
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Granddaughter
Gender: Female
Where born: Broadwinsor, Dorset, England
Civil parish: Broadwinsor
Ecclesiastical parish: Salisbury
Town: Childhay
County/Island: Dorset
Country: England

Street address: Newgate

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View Image
Registration district: Beaminster
Sub-registration district: Netherbury
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 69
Household Members:
Name Age

Tamsin Jeffery 64
Thomas Jeffery 33
Mercy Jeffery 38
Mary J Jeffery 14
Walter Jeffery 5
Elizabeth Jeffery 1

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2025; Folio: 11; Page: 13; GSU roll: 831758.

Kath. x

You are correct in your assumptions - other than the information you can see on the GRO Index you will have to purchase the certificate to find out more.

Neither parents names are shown (you need the birth certificate for this) , and the informant could in theory be anyone. I have certificates where the informant is a grandaughter, a neighbour and the houseowner - there is no way of telling until you see the cettificate.

If you have narrowed down to a single possiility, the I would order the cert, you have little to loose. Have you looked at the census returns? This can be a way of narrowing down the year of a death, and give you a possible location.

Another question or two for the GR family.

I am Australian and used to an online Death Certificate system whereby putting in the deceased persons name and year of death brings up a panel containing the "Given" names of both Father and Mother,and the local area where the death was registered.This means that prior to proceeding,you have a couple of cross reference points and will be able to confirm that you have the correct person - before spending your money.

My reading of the situation in the UK is that the death certificate may not have parent names on it-unless the informant was a parent.It also appears that no preview of death certificate contents is possible.Am I correct in these assumptions ?

The person of interest is my husbands g-grandmother.We think she died between 1886 and 1901.The only candidate we can find,of appropriate age at death,versus year of registration is an Elizabeth Jeffery [b1870]whose death was registered in 1895,Launceston UK aged 24years [Vol5c P25]. It would be a pity to purchase a certificate for this lady,only to find that there was no detail tying her to our family.

Is there any method that we can employ to find out the name of the informant before deciding to purchase
her death certificate ? If the name of the informant is not a recognisable family member,we would be none the wiser.

If the above leads us nowhere,what other methods would experienced genealogists employ in our situation? We have only verbal comments from now deceased family members to go on ie.the lady died sometime in the 1886 to 1901 time frame and lived in the Dorset/Somerset region in 1886 when she gave birth to her only child-apparently out of wedlock.Her mothers name at the time of Elizabeths death was Mary/Mercy Phillips [nee Jeffery also]and her stepfather was John Phillips.We know that both were alive when Elizabeth died.

Looking forward to some hints

Shirley