Genealogy Chat

Would a kind person do a look up for me, I am trying to find out who a Maria Simmons actually is ,she is a witness at a wedding in 1856 Whitechapel Register Office so I assume she would be living in the Whitechapel area. A David Jacobs was the other witness also probably living in Whitechapel. I have a feeling Simmons is her married name.

I am trying to register FTM2009 with a 6 month ancestry membership but guess what the computer says NO help!

Many thanks in advance

Anita

David JACOBS Head M Male 51 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England General Dealer
Martha JACOBS Daur M Female 48 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Housewife
Lewis JACOBS Son Male 21 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Cigar Maker
Jessie JACOBS Daur Female 17 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Assists At Home Domestic
Solomon JACOBS Son Male 15 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Cigar Maker
Isabella JACOBS Daur Female 10 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Scholar
Leah JACOBS Daur Female 5 Whitechapel, Middlesex, England Scholar


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Source Information:
Dwelling 73 Ernest St
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Family History Library Film 1341106
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 0481 / 104
Page Number 65


1881

There are 20 or more Maria Simmons listed on the 1851 census. Dates of birth ranging from 1772 to 1850. Very difficult to chose which one without more info. Could she have been the sister of the bride, or even the sister of the groom. If so could you search census information for those two pre marriage. If you can't send me the names and I'll have a look for you.

This is the 1851 census for Joshua. Note: where born should be Spitalfields, it is quite clear on the census original. The child Sarah Lyons is Joshua's step daughter. Esther's maiden name is Lyons. Free BDM shows marriage in Dec quarter 1846. There are two entries one under the name Lyon and the other Lyons. And yes they have another child called Elizabeth who must have been born about 1850.

Name: Joshua Simmons
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1822
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Esther
Gender: Male
Where born: Bell Lane Grital Fields

Civil parish: Westminster St James
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: St James Westminster
Sub-registration district: Berwick Street
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 208
Household Members: Name Age
Joshua Simmons 29
Esther Simmons 37
Sarah Lyons 13
Simon Simmons 12
Rachel Simmons 9 Mo
Asher Simmons 3
Elias Simmons 2 Mo
Elizabeth Simmons 1

Name: Phoebe Cohen
Year of Registration: 1839
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: City of London
County: London
Volume: 2
Page: 162 (click to see others on page)


This is Phoebe's part of the marriage record.

And here is Joshua's match.

Name: Joshua Simmons
Year of Registration: 1839
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: City of London
County: London
Volume: 2
Page: 162 (click to see others on page

So they were married in June quarter 1839.


Need to look at this one. It can not be your Simmons however the names are very similar. For reference purposes.

Name: Joshua Simmons
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1816
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Christ Church Spitalfields
Hundred: Ossulstone (Tower Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Whitechapel
Sub-registration district: Artillery
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Joshua Simmons 25
Caroline Simmons 25
Pheobe Simmons 7
Julia Simmons 5
Sarah Simmons 3
Henry Simmons 1
Elizabeth Simmons 6 Mo

And if you go to the 1871 census you will find Joshua and Esther Simmons living with their children and grandchildren, Elizabeth Simmons and Esther Simmons.

So either these two are the daughters of Elias Simmons (Joshua and Esther's son) or they are the children of Elizabeth Simmons (with no husband).

Oh it does become messy.

Have not forgotten Maria Simmons. Tried searching for her as maria Simmons, plenty of them; Maria Cohen, likewise. Hmm there's one more I haven't tried.

By the way. Do you have a tree on Ancestry. If not there are a couple with Elizabeth Simmons in them. One has Esther's name spelled as Levy, instead of Lyons. Still think it is the same person.

Name: Elizabeth Simmons
Year of Registration: 1856
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Whitechapel
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1c
Page: 664 (click to see others on page)

And yes the match is Abraham Lee.
And their daughter's name is Elizabeth!!!!!!

Here is a Maria Simmons 1851 census. By 1856 she would have been 21 and therefore old enought to witness a marriage. Family group has Elizabeth Simmons x 2 in it.

Name: Maria Simmons
Age: 16
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Gender: Female
Where born: Hackney, Middlesex, England

Civil parish: Hackney
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Hackney
Sub-registration district: West Hackney
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 114
Household Members: Name Age
John Simmons 32
Elizabeth Simmons 35
John Simmons 32
Elizabeth Simmons 35
Maria Simmons 16
Joseph Simmons 5
William Simmons 3
Charles Simmons 8 Mo
John Simmons 16
Elizabeth Simmons 7

There is a major problem with the original image of this census entry. The names of John and Elizabeth at the bottom of one page have been listed again at the top of the next page. In the first instance they are listed as "head" and "wife", in the second they are listed as "son" and "daughter".

So you can probably delete one set of John and Elizabeth Simmons from this record.

And it is assuming that Maria Simmons was related in some way to Joshua Simmons. I still like the idea that Simmons was her married name.

Here is a death registration for Phoebe Simmons. Twelve months before he married Esther. Only way you are going to know if it is the correct Phoebe is to buy the death certificate. Do it through

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

The certificate will tell you Phoebe's maiden name and if it is Cohen that will give you her date of birth and the obvious reason why Joshua remarried.

You could also try certificates for Maria Simmons, so we need to find a birth or marriage record for her.

Death Record
Name: Phoebe Simmons
Year of Registration: 1845
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Whitechapel
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 2
Page: 384 (click to see others on page

OK I will leave you to sift through that pile of information. We won't delete anything because it helps others to see what has been looked at.

Did you see this?

On Ancestry under England and Wales Criminal Registers. The charge was "uttering a counterfeit coin". The sentence was 12 months.

Name: Joshua Simmons
Age: 17
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Date of Trial: 23 Mar 1835
Trial Year: 1835
Location of Trial: Surrey, England
Sentence: Imprisonment
Crime: See Image
Date of Execution or Release: See Image

Thanks you for that, I know there was a Joshua Simmons who was transported to Australia.

Thanks every one once again for their help


Anita