Genealogy Chat

I wonder if anyone can help me sort this out.

My great great great grandfather John Mills was born in 1824 in Dilwyn, Herefordshire. In 1845 he married Ann Cartwright in Kington, Herefordshire. On the 1851 census John and Ann have three children John, Thomas and Hannah, living in Leominster. Up till now I couldn't find them on the 1861 census but I have them on the 1871 census John with his wife Ann and children Eliza, Sarah Ann, William, James and Richard and on the 1881 census John and Ann are there again with children James, richard, Amos and grandson Cephas. I have now found them on the 1861 census and John is a widower with children John, Thomas, Ann and Emma he also has a boarder Ann Phillips and her two daughters, Eliza and Sarah Ann.

I have looked on Freebmd for a death for Ann and a mariage for John and Ann after Ann's death. I find an Ann died in 1855 and a John Mills and Ann Phillips marry in 1858, If this is him why is Ann Phillips down on the 1861 census as Phillips and not Mills ? any ideas?

Anne

Curious! If John married Ann Philips in 1858 then her children on the 61 census aged 3 and 1 should be John's children and named Mills. Then again John also has a 1 year old daughter Emma. Who is her mother?

But, Jonesey, how could they each have a 1 year old daughter?

I don't have the marriage or death cert as I only discovered this anomoly this week. I don't know how the marriage cert will tell me it is my John Mills, his father was another John Mills!

The 1861 census describes Ann Phillips at Boarder not wife, do you see why I am so confused?!

I forgot about his occupation on the marriage cert. Think that will be my next move to get the marriage cert,. It just seemed odd that all the children had the right names and ages on the different census records. I thought I had sorted this side of the family out when I realised I didn't have the 1861 census and now I am more confused then ever! grrr!

Oh brilliant, thank you, year being out doesn't really mean much as even now my husband struggles to remember what year our son was born or how old he is!! Pity John, Ann and Mills are such common names. I had no problem find Cephas!!

I just had another look at the original of that 1861 census to see if Emma's age might have been 7 and not 1 but it's most definitely 1!
I think it's wrong though and the records that Jonesey found are correct.
So we're back to square one! Why is Ann Phillips listed as boarder in 1861 when it certainly looks as if they married in 1858?

Marriages Dec 1858 (>99%)
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Mills John Leominster 6a 1054
Philipps Ann Leominster 6a 1054

Margaret I have just been thinking if I got the birth cert for the first child on the 1871 census who isn't on the 1861 or 1851 census then that would give the mother madien name, so that would confirm whether he had two Ann's in his live or the 1861 census is just a fluke to fool me. Am I making sense? This is driving me bonkers!!

Anne

Where is Emma in 1871? If only 11 she should be still at home and I can't find a death.

The birth of a later child will almost definitely give the mother as Ann Phillips, but that is no proof that they married, either before or after 1861, only what they told the registrar.

What to do next? Well, depends on your general plans and how rich you are, but for a direct relative I would want to get as much proof as possible, so I would want his first wife's death cert and his second marriage cert. and would be prepared to take a risk on them. Not sure which to get first if you only want one, but I'd probably choose the marriage cert.

Margaret

Thanks Margaret, as it happens I have a birthday on Friday and I am hoping that there will be money to spend on certs, so I will send off for the marriage cert and see what that brings. Thanks for your help.

Anne

Found Emma on 1871 census a servant aged 15 years for the Smith family

Hi everyone,

thought I would update you on what I have discovered since you all helped me to try and sort this lot out. I found Ann Mills (nee Cartwrights) death in 1855 and got the cert, it confirmed the address and husbands occupation. I also sent off for Emma Mills birth cert, she was down on the 1861 census as being 1 year old, but no trace for her was found she was in fact born in 1854, got her birth cert and her mother was Ann Cartwright, so I knew I was on the right track. I have today received Amos Mills birth cert he was born in 1873 and his mother's maiden name is Phillips, so my hunch was right. However this still doesn't explain why when John Mills married Ann Phillips in 1858 she is down on the 1861 census as Phillips a boarder and unmarried, perhaps they were hiding something, guess i will never find out. Once again thank you everyone who tried to help me with this one, I really do appreciate it.

Anne