Genealogy Chat

Clouden Mills seems to now be called East Cluden Mill, or maybe just East Cluden. West Cluden is just across Cluden Water in the next parish/county Irongray KKD.

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/786059

Hi Potty,
Many thanks for the link to Ancestry.
Shelagh.

Hi Kath,

Yes, that's her. From Cumbria they moved to Halifax where she married Fred Fawcett in 1889.

Shelagh.

Hi Shelagh,
I found your family on the 1871 Census & Andrew Hyslop is down as being born in TROQUEER, KIRCUDBRIGHTSHIRE.
That might help us find his birth.

I found this for 1881 Census, Is this your Great-Grandmother?

Margaret Hyslop
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1868
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Andrew
Mother's Name: Margaret
Gender: Female
Where born: Scotland

Civil parish: Plumbland
County/Island: Cumberland
Country: England

Street Address: Plumbland
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Cockermouth
Sub-registration district: Maryport
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Hyslop 52
Margaret Hyslop 53
Andrew Hyslop 16
Margaret Hyslop 13
Samuel Hyslop 11
William Hyslop 9

I'm just trying to track all the censi information.

Kind Regards
Kath

Do you have this baptism:

MARY JANE HYSLOP Pedigree
Christening: 30 DEC 1849 Holywood, Dumfries, Scotland

Father: ANDREW HYSLOP Family
Mother: MARY MOFFAT

This is the IGI batch no for Holywood: M118305

The only marriage for a Mary Moffatt is to a William McMurray in 1848.

Maybe the marriage was an "irregular" one? This site has an explanation:

http://www.ancestry.co.uk/learn/library/article.aspx?article=8397

Thanks, Kath.
I found my g, grandmother Margaret's birth entry in Dalton (1867) and a younger sibling - Samuel (1869) in Kirkpatrick Juxta (both on Scotland's People). The marriage date for Andrew and Margaret on both entries is the same - 18th June, 1847 - on the former it says Clouden Mills, Holywood, and on the later it just says Holywood.

If they weren't married they had a good memory for the date they made up!

I also found Margaret on the 1851 census living in Holywood. She is with here two children - John and Mary, but there is no sign of Andrew. She is down as Hyslop (not Moffatt as on the 1861 census) and is head of the household, although it states she is an agricultural labourer's wife.

Shelagh

Perhaps Margaret was a widow and would have married in that name..but childrens birth certificates would state her maiden name,,,,

+Hi Shelagh,
I've just found that it's CLUDEN MILL, NOT AS ON THE BIRTH CERT.
Cluden Mill is in the parish of Holywood.

I'll have a look now.

Kath

Hi James,

Yes, I've tried familysearch - no luck.

S

Hi folks,
Many thanks for all your help and suggestions. I will follow up.
Shelagh.

You could try contacting the Dumfries and Galloway FHS:
www.dgfhs.org.uk/

I wouldn't assume from that census that they were not married. A woman's maiden name "stayed" with her in Scotland far more than in England. In legal documents I have seen, both are referred to , eg Margaret Macdonald (or Dunlop) and on many gravestones, eg Margaret Dunlop, wife of John Macdonald.

Sheilagh,

The National Archives for Scotland which is in Edinburgh is the place to search for non-conformist registers (if they survived .. and not all did) The following taken from their website.

Churches
Kirk session, presbytery and synod records for the Church of Scotland, Free Church, and various dissenting ('seceding') congregations; records of the Scottish Episcopal Church; copies of the records of baptisms, marriages and burials for Roman Catholics before 1855. Note that Church of Scotland baptisms, marriages and burials are held by the General Register Office for Scotland although there are a small number of records of baptisms for 1843-1860 held by the NAS.

www.nas.gov.uk

If you knew the name of the church Andrew and Margaret were married in you could maybe trace them through the NAS ... however, it sound like the only information you have is Clouden Mills. Even if they weren't married in an actual church building, I would still think the marriage record must have been registered somewhere.

Might even be worthwhile e-mailing the NAS and explaining your problem. They may be able to advise you on the non-conformist churches existing in that area at the time of the marriage.

Hi Shelagh,
Is this your family on the 1861 Census?

1861 Scotland Census
Name: Andrew Hyslop
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829
Relationship: Head
Spouse's name : Margret
Gender: Male
Where born: Kirkcudbrightshire
Registration Number: 611
Registration district: Riccarton
Civil parish: Riccarton
County: Ayrshire
Address: Tile West House
Occupation: Ploughman
ED: 2
Household schedule number: 13
Line: 1
Roll: CSSCT1861_89
Household Members: Name Age
Andrew Hyslop 32
Margret Moffat 38
Jennet Hyslop 9
James Hyslop 7
Thomas Hyslop 5


Source Citation: Parish: Riccarton; ED: 2; Page: 4; Line: 1; Roll CSSCT1861_89; Year: 1861.

Note that Margaret is using her maiden name.
Perhaps they didn't get married.
I have searched but nothing coming up, perhaps someone else can find your marriage.

Regards
Kath

Hi Helen,
The names are Andrew Hyslop and Margaret Moffat, both born abt. 1828. I've tried all variations of both names I can think of.
I was on holiday in Northumberland in the summer and visited the archives in Berwick on Tweed which holds printed lists of all marriages for Dumfriesshire and found nohing there either.
Shelagh.

Old Parish Register .. Banns and Marriages tend to be taken from the established church of the time. The Church of Scotland.

Scotlandspeople will only register a match for a name if it is spelled exactly as it was on the register.

Could the names you are searching for be spelled with a variation ?

What are the names you're looking for ?

I'm trying to finds the marriage of my g,g, grandparents in Scotland. I've found several of their chidlren's baptisms in registers on Scotland's People which also shows the details for the marriage as being 18th June, 1847 at Clouden Mills, Dumfriesshire.
The marriage doesn't appear in the parish records on Scotland's People. When they eventually moved to England I've found entries for the family in Congregationalist parish registers.
Does anyone know if there are similar non-conformist registers not recorded on Scotland's People?
Shelagh