Genealogy Chat

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Thanks Robert. My Walter's son - my grandfather was transcribed as Dawns in the 1901 census. And a 'joker' on my mother's Darling side put his occupation down as a thief !
Anyway Robert ,I did have some research done by a now famous person who researched my father's WW1 records before they came online and it was a birthday treat for me from the family.
regards

Grace

It is worth searching the names of all the other family members up and down the census'. I found a relative this way who had been completely mis-transcribed with the same surname as the previous person in the household.
I would agree that if the people here cannot track a name on a census, a paid "expert" is unlikely to be able to. They will search the same records and will have less perseverance unless your pockets are deep!
Different sites may transcribe the same individual differently so it is worth having a go on other sites. At 16 a boy is likely to have left school and be working and lodging elsewhere.
If he was abroad in the Army he will not show up at all as census returns for troops abroad were only collected statistically.

Apologies for delay in replying to your help/concerns, but after my husband
disturbed intruders at 3 a.m the other morning and chasing them, he's been unwell (in his mid-70s and chasing yobs?) I really do appreciate the help provided by Genes friends. Rose's previous help was followed up by a relative which I will explain.

1851 census John Down(e)s Head born Bermondsey 1821
Charlotte wife 27 born Whitechapel
Address 28 Martin St St George the Martyr, Southwark
Have the marriage of John Downes marriage to Charlotte Dellar
29 March 1835 St Leonards, Shoreditch

1861 Census John Down(e)s Head born 1821 Southwark with Elizabeth & family
( Got the marriage cert of John Thomas Downs to Elizabeth Adams
St Leonards Shoreditch August 1837.)
His father is Richard Downs
Got the birth cert of youngest child James on this census:-
27 Feb 1857 father John Thomas Downes mother Elizabeth formerly Adams living at 61 Ewer Street Southwark.
Have John Thomas Downs death cert 17 March 1868 still at 61 Ewer Street Southwark.
There is also another Walter Downs married in the next qtr to mine (just around the corner) in1871 whose father is Richard
John Thomas Down(e)s married to Elizabeth Adams also has a father named Richard which makes me think that John Thomas Down(e)s and Elizabeth are not my folks.
Perplexed or what ?
kind regards to all
Grace

In 1871 he's listed as born St Pancras and in Whitechapel in 1891.

Rose

Could he be listed as William here:

1861 England Census
about John Downs
Name: John Downs
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Elizabeth
Gender: Male
Where born: Southwark, Surrey, England

Civil parish: Southwark St Saviour
County/Island: Surrey
Country: England
Registration district: St Saviour Southwark
Sub-registration district: St Saviour
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 327
Household Members: Name Age
John Downs 40
Elizabeth Downs 35
John Downs 21
William Downs 15 or 18?
Sarah Downs 9
Louisa Downs 12
James Downs 4


Rose

There are parts of the 1861 missing. I have several relatives I can't find either. It's estimate at 3 percent and I know Woolwich/Greenwich is affected, where some of the army is stationed.

Rose

Why would you consult a genealogist to find him on the 1861 census? Such a person will use the same online records as us lot. Even if they go to a family history or records centre, they will only be looking at the same records. Some census pieces have been lost and no-one will find them.

If you have found him in 1851, with parents, or know who his parents are, and again in 1871, that is about as good as you can do.

But then you say you think he should have been baptised. Well, many people were not baptised, and if they were records are not necessarily available to the public or were even kept. There is no compulsion for most churches to give access to their baptismal records.

I'd also suggest, though not true of all professional researchers, that they don't have the same interest in getting to the truth as you might have yourself. I recall wanting to "prove" that a particular ancestor of mine was married at Manchester Cathedral in about 1815. Someone told me he "must have been because I have paid a professional researcher to find him". I checked with Manchester Cathedral myself, and whilst there was an appropriate marriage, there was no evidence that it was our ancestor. So I chose to pass on it. The chap paid £200 for that. It cost me nothing to find out the same information in an email to Manchester Cathedral.

You won't get any better advice in most cases than you get on here from some very experienced people with access to a lot of records. By all means try a Family History centre as your next port of call. But I would seriously not spend real money on this.

Grace

Please be careful if you do decide to use a paid researcher.

If at all possible use someone who has been personally recommended.

My OH's distant cousin paid a huge amount to a 'researcher' and a few years down the line passed the info on to my OH.

To cut a long story short...It was a load of assumptive rubbish for my OHs direct line.

The researcher had OH's direct ancestor marrying (aged 10!!) and having a child (again while aged 10) abroad.

OK her parents were immigrants in the 1800s but from OH's family records and those available elsewhere we have her and her family fully researched in England and she was born in 'London' and didn't marry (for the first, and only time) until aged 20 and, again, that was in 'London'

Be careful out there :-)

Chris

I may have to consult and pay a Genealogist for him I think.
Two others on here related to him have tried and failed even at the
Family History Library. Thought he would have at least been Baptised!
Thanks again for your help.

p.s You aren't the Barbara from USA are you? She put helpful p.c. tips
on here a few years ago.

Thanks Barbara for all your transcriptions.
The one that he seems missing from is the 1861 census.
He would have been about 16 ish.

kind regards
Grace

Can't locate in 1861. The 1861 does show institutions such as army/navy

1851 census transcription details for: 28, Martin Street, Saint George The Martyr, London, Southwark

National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107 Piece: 1564 Folio: 360 Page: 24


Reg. District: Saint George Southwark Sub District: Borough Road
Parish: Saint George the Martyr Enum. District: 14
Ecclesiastical District: Southwark City/Municipal Borough: Southwark

Address: 28, Martin Street, Saint George The Martyr, London, Southwark
County: Surrey


Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, John Head Married M 30 1821 Labourer
Bermondsey
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Charlotte Wife Married F 27 1824 Servant
White Chapel
Middlesex

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, John Son M 8 1843 Scholar
Southwark
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Walter Son M 6 1845 Scholar
Southwark
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Louisa Daughter F 4 1847
Southwark
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Sarah Daughter F 1 1850
Southwark
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, John Cousin M 11 1840 Scholar
Southwark
Surrey

1871 census transcription details for: Surrey St, Little, St George The Martyr, Southwark

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10 Piece: 604 Folio: 89 Page: 25


Reg. District: St Saviour Southwark Sub District: Borough Road
Parish: St George the Martyr Enum. District: 13
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough: Southwark

Address: Surrey St, Little, St George The Martyr, Southwark
County: London, Surrey


Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Walter Head M 24 1847 Middlesex

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Mary Ann Wife F 24 1847 Kent

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Phillip Son M 6 1865 Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Walter Son M 1 1870 Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, John C Son M 0 1871 Surrey

For info:-

1881 census transcription details for: 28, Apollo Bldgs, Lambeth

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11 Piece: 588 Folio: 77 Page: 18


Reg. District: Lambeth Sub District: Waterloo Road Second
Parish: Lambeth Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District: City/Municipal Borough:

Address: 28, Apollo Bldgs, Lambeth
County: Surrey


Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation ,
Disability Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Walter Head Married M 36 1845 Laborer
Southwark
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Mary Ann Wife Married F 37 1844
Woolwich
Kent

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Phillip Son Single M 17 1864 Machine Printer
Lambeth
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, John Son Single M 10 1871 Scholar
Southwark
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Mary Ann Daughter Single F 9 1872 Scholar
Southwark
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, William Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar
Southwark
Surrey

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DOWNS, Sarah Daughter Single F 3 1878
Lambeth
Surrey

If my ancestor was serving away during the 1861 (army/navy) census how would I search for him please?
I've had help from Genes friends since joining in 2002 but they may be as fed up as I am searching for him. We cannot find his birth/Baptism which doesn't help.
Walter Down(e)s born c1845 Southwark (supposedly)
Have his marriage 1871 to Mary Ann Goldsmith (his father was John Down(e)s Walter died 1901 Southwark