Genealogy Chat

I have a John Ellis - a popular name I know.

My problem lies in the following;
He was born in about 1838 in Aldgate to the parents of Thomas and Mary Ann Ellis.

In 1861 on the census he is listed as working as a waiter in a Tavern,
I've not found him in 1871 but I have found a John Ellis on the 1881 census born in Aldgate about the same time married and occupation is a French Polisher.

Do you think this is the same person? The address on the 1881 census is 13 Hill Place, London.

Thanks
Gypsy Joe

Uumm... not sure but this maybe the John in 1881 marriage;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about John Ellis
Name: John Ellis >>> Occupation; French Polisher
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1868
Spouse Name: Mary Ann Hosier
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 12 Apr 1868
Parish: St Thomas, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Ellis >> deceased
Spouse Father Name: Abel Hosier


Witnesses; Henry and Sarah Leaga(?)s


Dee x

1871

Occupation is French Polisher on original

ELLIS, John Head M 33 1838 Middlesex VIEW
ELLIS, M A Wife F 23 1848 Middlesex VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
582 Folio:
21 Page:
35

Registration District:
Poplar Sub District:
Poplar Enumeration District:
10 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Poplar Municipal Borough:
Address:
Langton St, Poplar County:
London, Middlesex

The witnesses on the marriage look like Henry and Sarah Leagas.

Henry Leagas probably marries Sarah Hosier


Marriages Jun 1874 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

*****Hosier Sarah Mile End 1c 1045
Jones Elizabeth Mile End 1c 1045
*****Leagas Henry Mile End 1c 1045
Wallace Robert Mile End 1c 1045

Hey Dee

That looks promising thank you, though I am worried that the date of birth is the same as the year of marriage.

I am still wondering if this is the right person though since he was a waiter in 1861. I'd hate to think I'm following the wrong person.

I have a note about him being married to an Ellen with a child Anne though now I can't find where I came acrosss that from - LOL.

Choccy

If this is the correct one then we're doing well, I still have concerns if I have the right person though.

What do you all think from Waiter to French Polisher considering I think he would have had to have training for the later.

Thank you for what you've both come up with though it's much appreciated.

Gypsyjoe

Hi Gypsy Joe,

I looked at the family in 1851 and the father Thomas went from being a Labourer then to a Cooper in 1861....... so I suppose anything is possible?

They were in WhiteChapel in 1851 and 1861 and in 1851 Johns birthplace was listed as London.

The year of birth on the marriage is nothing to worry about, basically they were of full age... hence no year of birth to put down.




Dee x

This is Johns' younger brothers marriage;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Walter Ellis
Name: Walter Ellis
Age: 28
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Spouse Name: Phoebe Williamson
Spouse Age: 34
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 24 Sep 1878
Parish: St Thomas, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Ellis >>>>> COOPER
Spouse Father Name: Henry Williamson

Witnesses; Mary Ann Craddock and Catherine Elllis


No mention of the father being deceased? I'll look for Edwards marriage next.

Dee x

Couldn't see Edwards marriage............ but surely this maybe the link you need;

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Alfred Ellis
Name: Alfred Ellis >>> Cellar man
Age: Full Age
Estimated birth year: abt 1870
Spouse Name: Louisa Frances Hosier
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 17 Apr 1870
Parish: St Thomas, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Ellis >> Labourer
Spouse Father Name: Abel Hosier


Winesses Henry and Sarah Leagas


So brothers married sisters???


Dee x

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Mary Ann Ellis
Name: Mary Ann Ellis
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1849
Spouse Name: Edward Woodhouse
Spouse Age: 27
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 31 Jan 1875
Parish: St Thomas, Stepney
County: Middlesex
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Thomas Ellis >>> Labourer
Spouse Father Name: Samuel Woodhouse

Witnesses; Alfred and Louisa Ellis

So Thomas still isn't listed as deceased, perhaps John and his father fell out??

I think the witnesses are John and marys brother and his wife.


Dee x

OOOh your a legend Dee :)

Thomas Ellis the father in 1841 is listed as a builder so I figured that as a labourer in 1851 just meant that is was easier for them to write down since by 1861 he's a cooper and it's still working with timber.


I had come across walter and wondered if this was the right person.

It's interesting that Alfred appears to have married into the same family.

Thanks again.
Gypsy Joe

Just pondering how a waiter could become a French polisher ... Maybe he was the one at the restaurant/bar where he worked who repaired the table tops if they were damaged. If his father worked with wood ... ? then he would have had familiarity with that. Perhaps that led to the French polishing? Not entirely sure as I think French polishing is quite skilled but ... there's a logic to it.

Also, fathers may not always show as deceased on marriage records (even when they are). I think it depends on the questions that are asked at the time.

Jill

This is interesting Dee because I haven't been able to find the father Thomas on a 1871 census or after.

OOOh thanks Jill

that's handy to know because in another family the father doesn't appear on his daughter's marriages certificates as deseased though on the 1851 census his wife is listed as widow, I've never found him on a census his a bit allusive but he was a sailor so that would explain alot.

gypsy joe

I think it happened a lot Joe. My mother married when she was 23 and never saw fit to mention that her father was deceased. He had died when she was 4 years old!

Jill

Yes well I guess they never would have thought in a million years that future generations would be looking into their lives. At least we know they may well do so in the future and can leave information.

Hi Gypsy Joe,
Have just found this thread.
Very interesting to me as I am of LEAGAS descent.
Henry who married Sarah Hosier was a nephew of my gt gt gfthr Thomas Leagas.

On the point about brothers marrying sisters, Henry's sister Caroline Anne appears to have married Sarah's brother Charles on 26th May 1869. Both of them having been widowed.

The relationships have another twist; after Alfred Ellis died in 1878 Henry's nephew John lodged for a while with the widow Louisa Frances at 41 Martha Street. He went back to Bethnal Green in the summer of 1881. On 3rd Sept Louisa gave birth to young John Leagas whilst three weeks later on 25th Sept his father married Mary Ann Hay at St Judes, Bethnal Green.

I can connect you with the Ellis-Leagas family if you wish.

Regards
Peter