Genealogy Chat

{panting} Golly, Shirlock, that's quite a steep hill you climbed for me, and certainly a more productive one than I've ever been able to link to in my LDS searches. Clearly I must study some search routines so as to be anywhere nearly as successful as you were. Mine are never as successful as yours has been. If they were I might have a life outside of work, my 90YO mother and my 4-legged family {chuckling}.

It is interesting to me to note that the births/christenings are authored by the Baptist church on Coxwell Street, where they lived, which affirms my information that the family were dissenters. Yet the marriages are authored by the Church of England. Can it be assumed that the Christian ceremonies were, in fact, in those faiths? It leaves me wondering why/when the change from one to the other. Knowing that there was a dissenter movement during that time, shall I just assume this is the reason?

As I said earlier, so many questions, so little knowledge {chuckling}. Thanks again for all your work,
Linda


Thanks so much.

These are also off familysearch.org which is free to search


CHARLOTTE ELIZABETH HOARE
Female
Event(s):
Birth: 14 JUN 1825 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Christening:
Death: 25 FEB 1826
Burial:
Parents:
Father: GEORGE HOARE
Mother: ELIZABETH



CHARLES HOARE
Male
Event(s):
Birth: 15 JAN 1822 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Parents:
Father: GEORGE HOARE
Mother: ELIZABETH


Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.



Births, 1651-1837
Authors Baptist Church (Coxwell Street, Cirencester, Gloucestershire) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilm of original records at the London Public Record Office, London.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RG-4 series no. 3756




******************************************************************************
This may be the correct marriage for above

GEORGE HOARE
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Marriages:
Spouse: ELIZABETH BARTON
Marriage: 05 APR 1821 Coln Rogers, Gloucester, England


Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Parish registers for Coln-Rogers, 1755-1952
Authors Church of England. Parish Church of Coln-Rogers (Gloucestershire) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilm of original records at Shire Hall, Gloucester.

*********************************************************************************

CHARLES HOAR
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY WAKEFIELD
Marriage: 31 OCT 1838 Kempsford, Gloucester, England

Husband Age at Marriage: 21
Wife Age at Marriage: 21


Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Parish registers for Kempsford, 1573-1970
Authors Church of England. Parish Church of Kempsford (Gloucestershire) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilm of original records at Shire Hall, Gloucester.

*********************************************************************************

FRANCIS HOARE
Male
Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:
Marriages:
Spouse: MARY WORME
Marriage: 01 NOV 1787 Cirencester, Gloucester, England


Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.

Bishop's transcripts for Cirencester, 1578-1812
Authors Church of England. Parish Church of Cirencester (Gloucestershire) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilm of original records in the Gloucester City Library, England.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Includes indexes.

Hello

These are off familysearch.org which is free to search.

1. EDWIN HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 23 JUN 1801 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

2. WILLIAM HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 08 AUG 1788 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

3. STEPHEN HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 17 NOV 1798 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

4. JOHN HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 26 OCT 1790 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

5. HANNAH HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 FEB 1792 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

6. DAVID HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 06 MAR 1796 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

7. FRANCIS HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 21 AUG 1789 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

8. GEORGE HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 06 MAR 1796 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

9. CHARLES HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 19 MAY 1797 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: FRANCIS HOARE
Mother: MARY

*******************************************************************************

1. HENRY HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 06 AUG 1830 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: EDWIN HOARE
Mother: CAROLINE

2. EDWARD COOK HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 05 MAY 1829 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: EDWIN HOARE
Mother: CAROLINE

3. MARY HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 01 DEC 1825 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: EDWIN HOARE
Mother: CAROLINE

4. ANN COOK HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 02 JAN 1828 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: EDWIN HOARE
Mother: CAROLINE

5. HANNAH HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 21 MAR 1836 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: EDWIN HOARE
Mother: CAROLINE

6. CAROLINE HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 27 NOV 1833 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: EDWIN HOARE
Mother: CAROLINE

7. GEORGE HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 29 APR 1832 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: EDWIN HOARE
Mother: CAROLINE

*****************************************************************************
. JANE HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 08 JUN 1832 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: DAVID HOARE
Mother: SARAH

2. SARAH HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Female Birth: 30 NOV 1833 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: DAVID HOARE
Mother: SARAH

3. RICHARD HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 16 DEC 1830 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: DAVID HOARE
Mother: SARAH

4. GEORGE HOARE - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Birth: 08 JAN 1836 Baptist Chapel, Cirencester, Gloucester, England
Parents:
Father: DAVID HOARE
Mother: SARAH
******************************************************************************


Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date

You should be able to get copies of these records from here.

Births, 1651-1837
Authors Baptist Church (Coxwell Street, Cirencester, Gloucestershire) (Main Author)

Notes Microfilm of original records at the London Public Record Office, London.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RG-4 series no. 3756

{chuckling} no, DET, I've not. I slithered around a bit when you first mentioned Victor, but got nowhere and let it be for the time being. But your outlining it as you've done above will make it easier for me, DET. I'll check it out.

Much thanks to my British friends! It's wonderful to have you to explore my thinking and research with.

Warmly,
Linda {waving}

Have you seen this thread on 'Records' by Victor?

Records Office: Gloucestershire Archives
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.asp?wci=thread&tk=1209353

(or change the digits at the end of this current web page address to 1209353)

He is offering short term look ups at Gloucester Archives and may be able to help with the work house records.

Okay, I'm back . . . a bit earlier tonight. Let's see, where was I last night?? Hmmm, I'd outlined the male side of the Cirencester line, as best I could. Keep in mind, BTW, I'm a newbie at this genealogy thing. So, let me try to do that again. And there were some other issues I'd addressed.

Hmmm, okay, I understand the family was Baptist, so they may well be buried in the Baptist Church cemetery. I could try to locate the church address and attempt to contact them. I believe the church was on the same street on which they lived.

This family, as best I've learned, first arrived in Cirencester in the mid-late 1700's, as evidenced by gen (1) marriage there 1Nov1787. They left with my grgrandfather's placement in Barnwood Asylum in the early-mid 1890's. My grandfather's parents were only married (29Mar1881) 10-12 years when he was moved there. His father was 42-years-old when married for the first time. Amazing! Probably speaks to his having contracted a sexually-transmitted disease, huh? At this time his wife doubtless left Cirencester, returning to Switzerland for a time, until Grandfather returned, with his team winning the Gloucester Rowing Club races in 1903 and 1904. So . . . that's the background . . . or is it the foreground {chuckling}? Here are the details:

(1) Francis Hoare [Mary Worme] (9 ch, 1f, 8m incl.1 pair twins)
B. 8Feb1759 St. Enoder, Nr. Indian Queens, Cornwall
D. 13Jan1833 Cirencester, Gloucestershire

(2) Charles Hoare [Mary Wakefield] (3 ch, 1m)
B. 19May1797 Cirencester, Gloucestershire
D. 28Oct1880 Cirencester, Gloucestershire

(3) Francis Hoare [Henriette Sieber] (5 ch, 3m)
B. Dec1838 Cirencester, Gloucestershire
D. 1Nov1895 Gloucester, Gloucestershire

(4) Arthur Sieber Hoare [Elizabeth Malone] (2 ch, 1m)
B. Sep1884 Cirencester, Gloucestershire
D. 17Jul1955 Clearwater, Florida, US

Arthur, my grandfather, emigrated via NewYork 1906, after aiding in the Rowing Club wins, 1903-04.


The family lived at 21 Coxwell Street, Cirencester. This was a business and a home address combined, on the corner of Coxwell St. and Thomas Street. The house, BTW, is in near 19th Century pristine historical condition. It is AMAZING! The then-owner invited my mother and me to tour the property in ummm Aug, 2003. The barn is nearly unchanged. Keep in mind that the wool trade had started to falter in deference to Italian wool at about the time the family took over the property, and gradually declined to failure through the 1800's. I have no record of how/when the property was sold or who purchased it. I say "sold" as Henriette must have had funds to move about with the children, back and forth, and was doubtless of "independent means," as the family had been identified throughout their lives there.

Enuf for now. I have hit an impasse, despite the help of my cousin, now deceased, in Dorset, with anything as to the origins prior to the Cirencester encampment. There was a suspicion on her part that they were from the Dorset area, "as it was 'stuffed' with Hoares." LOL, ROFL. Seriously, folks.

More tomorrow, perhaps. Let me keep thinking about this some more. I think I have some responses to some of your replies, but I'm pretty fried right now and have to get to bed.

Warmly,
Linda

(sigh) I just spent 30 minutes on a sorta-short response with detail included and just lost it all by clicking on the wrong stupid button.

It is now 3 a.m. and I have got to take a nap before work tomorrow, er later this morning, so I'll have to recompose it later today.

My most humble apologies for the additional delay this will cause in my reply in response to your collective ideas and info. I am so sorry. But I'll get back to you with some of what you asked for.

Linda (when WILL I learn to compose such messages on Microsoft notepad before I attempt to "send" them and so I won't lose it all if I SCREW IT UP!!!)

You could ask Victor for help

I have nudged up his thread on the Records Office board offering help at "Gloucestershire Archives" (at 9.40ish BST !)

Good morning Linda Anne. who ought to be in bed as it will be about 3.30am over there!

4) Council run cems started to open about 1850, so its worth asking the local council if they will have a search of their records. They may make a charge which if not published, you can ask about. Not all councils do. Their cems and cremation dept usually have an email contact address from the main Council web site. By googleing Cirencester, it gives a result of www.cotswold.gov.uk. I'd have thought that the name, registered address at the time of death, and the date of death would be sufficient information for them.

Before then, it was not entirely unusual for dissenters to be buried in unconsecrated graves in the local established church graveyards, so it's worth asking there.

Do you have the official gro records of their BMDs? If not, they can be purchased from gro.gov.uk. I think the current cost is £9.25 which includes p&p. Civil registration started Sept 1837, although not compulsary for all events until about 1873 (some one will correct me if wrong). The index numbers can be searched for on freebmd.

Have you looked at www.bmdregisters.co.uk for Non-Conformist and Non-Parochial BMDs? Free to search but pay to view. This is the equivalent to Parish records.

5) Try searching for a family history group based around Cirencester and join. They may have transcribed records they can access to you, and could look for any headstone once you have found a burial place. Please bear in mind that only a minority of people in the 19thC could afford one, and many of those have either been cleared or the grave reused. We don't have the space to expand as you do in CA!

7) Depending when the relative died, the workhouse/hospital records may be held at the County Archives. These tend to be covered by the 100 year rule.
www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/archives which also has a link to Gloucester Family History Society. The Archives would make a charge to find and copy any records. Again, ask about the cost.

7b) Electoral rolls are only searchable by address, so it would be difficult to discover if they returned to the UK. You could try CWGC.org to see if any were casulties in the 2nd WW.

Good luck in you search. If you were to tell us what you do know, with names, dates and places, someone may be able to help you with additional records.

Hi maybe if you gave their names somebody on the boards might help you. Sheila

Hello fellow genealogy researchers! Linda here, from California, US.

I have family from Gloucestershire who I have noted are "dissenters." Not being raised in Britain I am interpreting that identifier as meaning that they were not of the Church of England faith, but of another; Quaker, Baptist, etc.

So, they would not be buried in Ch/Eng parish cemeteries, like-duh. And their records would be of their chosen faith, which I understand to be Baptist. There is a Baptist church in Cirencester, where the family lived for 3+ gens. I am assuming that I can contact the church and request records of my family.

Given that the family spent so many gens in the same community is a blessing, isn't it? So,

1) Is it possible to do this online?

2) I would like to request records for all, at least, "direct ancestry" relatives, ie. grfather grgrandfather & -mother, grgrgrandfather & -mother, etc. etc. I haven't a clue what the cost will be, BTW.

3) What information should I provide the parish? Shall I provide them with the names, Bdates, Ddates, known baptisms? Are there any other dates I should provide them which might enhance my research?

4) Where might I go to learn where they are buried?

5) Where might I go to find someone who might photograph the grave markers, if they are local?

6) What am I missing here?

7) Oh, and the last male in the line to live in Cirencester died in a hospital / asylum in Gloucester. How might I obtain his paperwork?

His family, including my grandfather is pretty much lost to me between the time grgrandfather was hospitalized and grandfather emigrated to the US in 1906. Although, interestingly, I do have silver trophies from his participation in a rowing club in 1903, 1904 and WINNING! The Club informed me that they had little in the way of records from that period, which my photos can enhance .

I suspect that grgrandmother returned to Switzerland with their 5 children and perhaps the boys, at least, returned to Gloucestershire when they came of age . . . who knows . . . just making assumptions. But the trophies and his participation in the Gloucester Rowing Club is telling and perhaps helpful if I knew your country better, understanding how he might have made his decision to return to England and what he expected upon his return.

8) So many questions. So little knowledge.


I would greatly appreciate any guidance you folks might be able to provide me in these areas. Even little nuggets of info on how to manage this search would be most helpful.

Kindly,
Linda (who lives where it is currently 8 p.m. and knows it is only 4 a.m. tomorrow for her British kin )

EDIT: Tread header misspelling!!
EDIT: [HUH?] Fix header misspelling?? {good grief!}